Spain

[noto2]

So I just tried out the Spanish. I got a decent start in that I found 2 natural wonders before turn 25, for 1000 gold in the early game. I used that gold to rush purchase workers, settlers, and units to expand rapidly, and went up the liberty tree as well. I ended up with 8 cities by 0 AD, twice as many as everyone else. I then, of course, ran into happiness and money problems and tried to solve these problems by building wonders, and lost basically every single wonder race, and then fought a losing war.

So then I got thinking... the Spanish UA is like the liberty tree, you get tons of gold in the early game that can be used to rush out expansion. So... what if instead I had gone tradition? Then it would be like getting the best of both worlds. I'd have the capital boosting and wonder building ability of tradition, and the expansionary ability of liberty. I could have expanded at a decent rate AND built wonders at the same time.

I'm new to Civ5 and not yet used to the harsh penalties on expansion. In Civ4 it was much easier to expand rapidly in the early game if you knew what you were doing. I'm thinking going liberty AND rush-buying settlers at the same time was a bad idea...
thoughts?

 

[Memoryjar]

Liberty is a good tree for early warfare. Otherwise, tradition is Uber power.

With 1000 gold, you can have an early 2 cities NC, then extend to 4. Limited factor is, in this case, hitting Philosophy fast.
Monarchy ensure you enough gold to sustain early expansion. Then as you growth your cities and connect them with a road, you'll have gold.

Civ V is a tall game. Wide is not really good unless you master all concepts and feel you'll have advantage with Liberty. On low level or if you have one or two cultural CS allies, you can try Mix Liberty/Tradition. Open tradition, then Liberty to collective rules, then end tradition (oracle help a lot).

 

[Strickl3r]

I wouldn't buy a settler with 50% discount on it in the capitol, if you build it. Better buy the libarys in newly found cities to get a faster National College or workers as you did to get faster tile improvment.

If you go Liberty with a lot of cities you need to have roads asap from my experience. If the empire is connected with roads 8 cities should make money not lose money.

8 cities need a lot of luxuries usually. Althouhg it's not really the strongest wonder in the game you could also build the notre dame with the engineer from liberty finisher(on higher difficulties, on lower you get it if you want it anyway)

You also probably get ''we don't like you settling new cities to aggresively'' or whatever the penalty is named.

 

[beetle]

So... what if instead I had gone tradition?

Why not replay the game from the save where you made the Tradition/Liberty decision (or even the initial save, which the game makes for you)? Really, playing the same map with different SP trees is the best way to get a feel for what works for you.

 

[noto2]

Beetle, but then it's more like an experiment and less like a game You're right, though.

 

[Sessy]

2 natural wonders should spell easy game for Spain. the other guys before me had great points about buying settlers for tradition and buying libraries for liberty with the extra gold. either way you should be off to an extremely strong start. you should try to secure the NWs with cities and get the "one with nature" pantheon for an awesome 8 faith on the tile. From there your religion should come earlier than most and pick pagodas for the happiness.

 

[beetle]

but then it's more like an experiment and less like a game

Sure, but isn’t experimenting with the game part of what keeps things interesting?

Absolutely, rely on the collective wisdom of these forums. But plenty of the advise is contradictory. If replaying turn 0 maps feels like work then don’t do it!

 

[noto2]

Well I'm playing Spain again and this time I only found 1 NW near me, but it was the fountain of youth 20 bonus happiness...wow...just wow...

But, to be honest, I re-rolled like 4 times because I had 4 games in a row where there wasn't a single NW on my continent, not even one. This is poorly designed. Spain should get something like double yield from ruins, at least that way they would get consistent decent bonuses in nearly every game, rather than getting absolutely nothing in most games, and then a game-breaking bonus in a few.

 

[z284pwr]

Well I'm playing Spain again and this time I only found 1 NW near me, but it was the fountain of youth 20 bonus happiness...wow...just wow...

But, to be honest, I re-rolled like 4 times because I had 4 games in a row where there wasn't a single NW on my continent, not even one. This is poorly designed. Spain should get something like double yield from ruins, at least that way they would get consistent decent bonuses in nearly every game, rather than getting absolutely nothing in most games, and then a game-breaking bonus in a few.

I believe this is why Spain is basically in a ranking tier by itself....either above God like or below terrible depending on the map.

 

[playshogi]

When I play Spain on a fractal map, I find a natural wonder first about half the time.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Well I'm playing Spain again and this time I only found 1 NW near me, but it was the fountain of youth 20 bonus happiness...wow...just wow...

But, to be honest, I re-rolled like 4 times because I had 4 games in a row where there wasn't a single NW on my continent, not even one. This is poorly designed. Spain should get something like double yield from ruins, at least that way they would get consistent decent bonuses in nearly every game, rather than getting absolutely nothing in most games, and then a game-breaking bonus in a few.

people view the discovery bonus as being crucial to the Spain experience. it is seriously strong but shouldnt be a guarantee every game. you still get 100g for any discovery. but if those wonders are on another continent you can take your Conquistadors over there and grab them. many start in or 1 tile from CSs--those can be used too if you are willing to take a CS. this is only for the best of tile yields though. but they did change warmonger penalties for earlier eras with the recent patch. even if you dont find one first you can still find a way to settle it.

honestly, people never discuss any other aspect of Spain. granted their UUs arent OP but they are useful if you know how to use them. I think Tercio is the least of them only for being a melee unit that costs more than the one it replaces. Strategically it has value but its the easiest to ignore, imo. But the Horse UU is actually really fun to use just for the games you didnt get huge benefits early.

now if you have no NWs, no horses, and no iron then your Spain experience is nerfed almost entirely and totally justifies restarting/rerolling.

 

[noto2]

Oh I got tons of use out of both UU's. I used the conquistadors to nab the luxury resources that I was lacking and I conquered my continent with tercios. 'twas glorious.

 

[klaskeren]

yes tradition is much better. if you get 1k gold for free use this for 2 settlers, when you have 2 settlers for free the third free one is nowhere near as big of a boost as when you have 0 for free and get the first free one with liberty. With spain tradition is better, as in the majority of cases, unless you are doing some original tactic with some form of rush or something

 

[Makenshi]

Oh I got tons of use out of both UU's. I used the conquistadors to nab the luxury resources that I was lacking and I conquered my continent with tercios. 'twas glorious.

Wait until you play the "Into the Renaissance" scenario with Spain, that's when you see how BRUTAL Isabella can be.

- Settled the whole peninsula iberica with [iirc] 9 cities and annexed Lisbon [Portugal will no exist in my game lol];
- Sent 3 conquistadores [only her beautiful majesty queen can do this] and 5 caravels to the new world for a whooping 3000 points;
- Allied Vatican on turn 100, granting another 10 points per turn along the last 100 turns [for a total of another 1000 in the end];
- Ravaged the Almohad caliphate to the last city with 6 tercios, 7 crossbows, 5 conquistadores and 4 canons [also, coastal support with some privateers and a few frigates]. Scored more or less 2000 points.

Man, that game was great!

 

[isau]

Depending on which wonders they were, this is a rare situation where Piety opener with a rush for Sacred Sites might be very worthwhile. I would probably only do this on a replay tho, not a first time thru.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

I always think of Spain as a wide civ, but there is no reason not to pick tradition and go wide (especially if you can nab the fountain of wide empires).

producing ~8 conquistadors and saving a few for crucial coal, oil, new lux is an obvious way avoid building a few settlers. Their usefulness is limited on pangea, but on old world, or achi maps, they are great.

 

[Melchizedek]

I like Spain. It gives you interesting choices, and it's fun to play. There are 43 civs, so if you want one with totally predictable uniques, play one of the other 42. I agree with the other posts saying you can still have a good game even if you don't discover any NWs first. You can always go settle/take them, plus you still 100 gold each and double happiness for finding them, and that adds up pretty nice.