Spanish Strategies

Icaria909

Emperor
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
564
I am sick of hearing people talking about how since you can win with one to five colonies then the game is boring :mad:. I think one of the reasons this happens is because few people in this forum have written anything concerning playing with the inherent strengths with the different civs(thanks to those few that did); as developing strategies that tailor to the strengths of each civ is half the fun of the game. So, i am writing this strategy for the spanish. I have written a small part of this strategy on another thread, but i will go in depth on every part of the strategy here.

Map:
Big Western Map on marathon (the amount of turns in marathon allow the player to pursue other things in the game while still having the necesary time to win the game).

CiV:
Spanish; I personally prefer to use Simon Bolivar because his ability augments my military approach to winning, Jose de San Martin makes just as good of a choice( you will be in constant state of war for almost 250 years, so he can be a good choice).

Starting Moves:
To start, sail your caravel to the carribean, and drop off your pioneer and veteran soldier on either Modern Day Dominican Republic or Cuba (I place and name all my cities in historic sites of where they are, so when i mention Buenos Aires or Havana I will be talking about where they are now geographically). I personally settle in Cuba and create Havana. Settle your city with your veteran soldier and begin to improve the tiles around you with the pioneer. explore the Caribean a little but be ready to send back your caravel. During the course of the game, build havana to be an industrial center by building a dock, warehouse, dockyard, and eventually a cigar factory. After sailing back to europe and your colony a few times use the money you have accumulated to buy horses and ship them back to havana. Settle your pioneer in Havana. In the city you should still have your veteran soldier with his 150 guns and with the 300 horses you bought. you make him into a veteran dragoon. With this veteran dragoon, your conquistador, you are the most powerful player in the game and with his help you will establish the spanish empire in the americas. The year should be around 1519, give or take a few years.

Military Confrontations and War in the Spanish Main:
Take your dragoon and ship him over to latin america. usually there is one civ that makes up southern mexico, latin america, and panama. scout his cities out first and take his treasures and stick them off to the side of mexico. Declare war on the natives and take all the natives cities; because of the the geography of latin america, the natives will have a hard time getting around your dragoon. With every native settlement you destroy, you'll get a converted native and another treasure. once you destroy these native settlements establish one port city off southern mexico where Veracruz was established, this city should have a good amount of food around it, not to mention a lumber tile and ore tiles, and water tiles. This city is going to be one the most important cities in the Spanish Empire as it should later on be a big gun production center. Establish the rest of the cities near the mountains, except place one city on that little stretch of land that makes the isthmus of Panama, and establish Panama City. Panama City is the most important city the empire will have because of it's geographic location. At this point you trade all those treasures to the king for immediete gold. You might have enough or you will in a few turns, to buy another caravel and load it with a jesuit missionary and a scout. Ship them back to panama and send the jesuit missionary to establish a mission in the native settlements of northern mexico, and use the scout to collect more treasures from the natives in south america. Over the course of the next hundred years destroy every native settlement in south america that makes up modern day Venezuela, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Paraguay, argentina, and uraguay.

City Placement and economics:
In this strategy you will develop around 30-32 cities, so it's important to develop a strategy concerning with economics. establish cities with you captured, convertive natives along the wester edge of south america with three to four cities stretching to the east to connect Buenos Aires to the rest of the empire. Make sure each city is close to the mountains. In the beggining of the game only collect silver, create about six to eight wagons and transport all your silver to panama city where you caravels should pick it up. If all of your colonies in the americas produce silver you can ship over any amount of silver, ranging from 300 pieces of silver to 600 pieces of silver. With silver about 18/19, this silver will make you far richer than any other civ. With this money, it is important to buy caravels (so you can have around six to eight by 1650), silver specialists (with a native harvesting a single silver a turn, when you add the silver specialists you can triple your production of silver in that city), and cannons and veteran soldiers to help conquer natives and defend your colonies. For shipping purposes, send all your wagons and ships to panama city for transport because panama is directly in the middle of the map, between your northern colonies and southern colonies, and it allows your ships to travel between the carribean and the pacific ocean. If the europeans develop privateers, just start sending your caravels through the pacific, the prvateers will take forever to go around south america. By around 1550-1560 you should build mexico city just north of the water square in the middle of modern day mexico with converted natives from the mission you established earlier with your jesuit missionary. Put the city on full LB production to get LB points for Founding fathers. with all the money you get from silver, buy and place cannons in mexico city to protect it from native attacks. The natives will hate you, in one game they had -80 some points (-63 or so for raising all their cities, -10 for revenge, -6 for my life threatening their war of life, -5 for declaring war on thier neighbor, etc) so don't even try to repair diplomatic relations with them. Just do what the spanish actually did to them; kill the men, raze their towns, enslave the rest, steal their silver, and make the colonial government rich and powerful. Place one cannon on the peripherery of your south american colonies to protect from the natives as your dragoon conquers chile and argentina.

in 1620 begin to to develop new products because by 1650, silver will have dropped to one, so you have to develop new ways to make money. To make micro management easier, i would establish vicerroyalities (usually the ones the spanish had in the seventeenth century: New Spain, New Mexico, New Granada, Peru, La Plata, florida and the carribean colonies). these vicerroyalities represent divisional administrative areas, "mini states," that produce certain products for different purposes. For example, the vicerroyality of Peru will probably have around six cities, with lima being it's "capital." they should produce ore and eventually begin to make a blacksmith and an armory in Lima, so your other cities there can use the ore to produce tools and guns. The Vicerroyality of Peru will be your tool and gun manufacturor; vicerroyalities are good because they specialize areas of your colonies just like one would specailize each individual city if one only has five. another bonus: four cities producing cigars or tools will outproduce a single city with factories, unless they that single city has a pop of twenty. New Granada (Modern day Venezuala, Columbia, and Ecuador), should produce tobacco and cigars, and maybe some sugar. Latin america should harvest timber to giver to you mexican colonies, la plata (argentina) should develop cotton, and Weavings, and eventually make buenos aires a production center for horses. You can always settle some parts of the caribean and florida later.

Developing Administrative Capitols:
YOu should develop around four to five decent sized cities for war production purposes and trade. Mexico city, panama city, lima, buenos aires, VeraCruz and Havana (optional) should be these cities. Make each one produce tools, guns, and horses, and allow them to get populations of around six to eleven. All major production should occur in these cities.

Developing New Mexico and preventing the natives from destroying your empire:
Mexico City in the north should have it's borders very big, and it could have destroyed one or two native settelments while your dragoon was conqering the south. (to prevent hostilities with the northern tribes give them 1000 gold every so oftern. Don't worry about the money, the amount of silver you have means you can afford almost anything). You should have garrisoned at least two cannons there by this time. Eventually, buy guns and horses from europe an make another dragoon, and colonial soldier, for you are about to bring war to mexico, california, texas, and new mexico. Delcare war on the natives just north of mexico city. Conquer them and establish colonies in northern mexico, one to represent texas, two in arizona and new mexico, one where los angeles is, and one where san francisco is. keep fighting the natives until you have destroy that native civilization. that should leave alot of space between your northern colonies and other natives, but leave a cannon in your northen cities just in case of attack.

In south america, you should have to only deal with one more native civ. they should make up brazil or so, and to prevent them from randomly declaring war, do what the spanish did: keep up low level conflict in the interior of brazil by razing their settlements. the natives will follow your dragoon around and mostly not try to destroy your cities. after destroying four cities or if the natives get close to one of your cities, get peace. in ten turns declare war again and repeat this process. If the natives attack in large numbers, kill one or two the braves with your cannons as they approach your cities, and give 1500 gold to the natives. usually this buys 20 turns of peace, but don't worry because as long as you keep 2000 gold on you, then you can always get peace. If your economy is running as well as it should be, then this is chump's change.

Founding fathers to get before the revolution:
With mexico city producing LB's throughout most of the game, you can get most of these founding fathers.

John Paul Jones- gives a frigate( send all your ships to europe at once and keep the frigate their to protect them against privateers. Spanish treasure fleets in the late sixteenth century had all their ships travel anually with protective ships to protect the cargo ship's cargos from attack. In the game, if you are facing a semi intelegint person in multiplayer they will develop the same idea that the british did in 1570: Piracy on a massive scale. The spanish never developed an effective navy for the colonies until the 1588, but that armada was destroyed by the brits and the weather, so just keep to the spanish tradition of anually sending out protected treasure fleet to europe. If piracy becomes a problem, ship your goods through the pacific).

Marquis de La Fayette- increases gun production by taxes. by the time of the revolution you should have 50-65% taxes and this will help you to develop that huge army you need to win.

Hernan Cortes- free stockade in every city. When the indians and spanish royalists come in your borders, the extra defense is amazing and many times it can mean the difference between losing six cities or repelling an indian attack.

Alexander Hamilton- +3 hammers per Town Hall, this helps with late game production military and political points for more founding fathers.

Vaco Nunez de Balboa- +25% defense per settlement; just like hernan cortez's ability.

Juan de Bermudez- +1 movement for Caravels, Merchantmen, and Galleons; shorten trips to europe are heavily needed during war.

Patrick Henry- +3 Liberty Bells per Town Hall; with such a large empire you need liberty bell bonuses.

Samuel Adams- Increases Liberty Bell production by the tax rate.

John Jay- +25% Liberty Bells per settlement

James Madison +3 Guns per Armory, Magazine, and Arsenal

LB production surge:
around 1640-1650 change all your cities to LB production. Buy up horses and guns in europe and stockpile them in your large cities.By the time of the Revolution, you should have stockpiled at least 2000 horses and 2000 guns. you should also have about two dragoons, one colonial militia, one veteran soldier, and seven cannons already made, and although many people would say that that army is nothing for such a large empire, they have to realize that you have maybe 2-3 great generals already, with a huge amount of promotions for those units. your units are the greatest in the game and could beat any of the other europeans at this point.

Preventing other euorpeans from getting independance:
Trade guns to natives close to other european's settlements, as well send over your merchant marine and some of your units to the europeans settlements. Raze on or two of their cities and leave; if your lucky the natives might jump in at the last second and finish them off for you.

Constitution:
the two most important ones to have are monarchy and free slaves.

Monarchy is great because with your huge empire it'e impossible to effectively blocade all your major ports. avoid the royal navy like you avoided the privateers, and continue to sell products in europe for much need cash during the revolution.

Free slaves is pivatol to victory because they will provide you with the late game bonuses in production (in major cities) and provide you with more then enough colonists to increase your army. Think about it, with 30 some cities this constitutional amendment gives you 60 free colonists to do with what you please. I would put a lot of them in your production cities, and leave the rest to produce more industrial goods for sale in europe. when the royalists numbers become too large, draw colonists out of the countryside to fight alongside your normal army.

Military strategems and tactics to win:
YOur large empire furnshes you with many benefits that other players colonies can never match. Specifically, the amout of money you can produce, the quality of troops you have, the ability to ship goods even during the revolution, as well the military doctrines you can use. Most of these tactics i use stem from military tactics used by Rommel and his Afrika Korps and the mongols.

First off, to win a battle one needs two things, superior mobility and firepower. Firepower is usually represented in civ games by more having more men, but in this game your troops have a vast amount of experience in war from all their promotions, and this pretty much gives them more "firepower" then the royalists. Mobility is something thats even more important. This single element in war can allow you to win anything. World war 1 was a static war; a war without much mobility and this allows for economic and societal collapse. But, in WW2, rommel and the nazis developed a new strategy to make dynamic warfare: Blitzkrieg, Flachenjarsch, and the Schild and Schwert.

Specifically the Schild and Schwert is the most important, as this will allow your limited troops to defeat an enemy that can appear on any of your borders and who has a much bigger army then you. The tactic used in the game goes as follows: leave two cannons in each of the vicerroyalities with an administrative city that has a colonial musketeer. Build up a force of ten dragoons and station them in panama to await the first attack. For me the spanish royalists first attacked buenos aires. If they land way too many troops, abandon the city with your troops and take up a position on a hill about five to six squares away. collect all your defensive troops in the area, cannons and colonial musketeers, on the hill and send six of your dragoon down there. if royalists get near the hill destroy a unit or two with the cannons, but if four or five seem to want to go around your hill fortification then let them do so. Now is the time to employ the flachenjarsch; have your dragoons spread out to have two dragoons in each square with each division taking up a square going three across. with your dragoons traveling over a wide area, you can kill those royalists that went around your fortifications. just kill enemy troops with your dragoons by picking them off one at a time as they go around your hill fortification. eventually your can bring all your forces together and remarch on buenos aires and recapture the city. Repeat this process throughout most of the game. By about 1760-1780 you should win.

I developed this strategy while playing on governor, so there might be some problems with it. I would like to hear if anyone else has strategies specifically developed for the spanish, and for veteran players, i would like you mention if there are ways that you could find to defeat this kind of a strategy in a multiplayer game.:king:
 
Icaria909,

Thanks for the guide. I have only played as the Dutch so far, but I think I will try the new leaders.
 
Seems like an excellent guide. An earlier one is Draken's in the Articles section:

Guide to Win on Revolutionary.- The Spanish Conquistadors

I have followed that strategy with great success...albeit on a random map and at Epic speed (and once on Normal speed, I think).

A couple of notes:

First and foremost, I'm not questioning that your strategy works!

Seems like a slow start compared to Draken's, waiting for horses before starting attacks and waiting even longer to start scouting. I hate losing so many treasures to Dutch and English scouts who will be out about the same time. It also seems like your dragoon may be facing two militia soldiers in a stockaded town, at least as difficult as having your vet soldier vs one militia in an un-stockaded town.

I wonder how this would work using the Dale/Snoopy PatchMod. The pirate might play, um, heck with your early caravels, and those horses and guns in your LB surge would cost a fortune...a fortune you may well have.

Oh, a question: are you chaining your wagon trains in South America (i.e. true micromanagement horror) or running them normally (and presumably mostly automated)?
 
First off, can you put the link from his strategy here because i would love to see his. Maybe i could use some of his strategies in mine, and it would make my games more fun.

I haven't read his guide, so i don't know what he does first, but the reason my strategy starts out a little slower is because, just in case my dragoon dies in combat (it has happened in one game.....)then my city is not too close to the indians and i don't have to worry that they'll come and destroy my only city. indians can't travel over the sea, so water is the best barrier to keep them out, consequently it also prevents you from trading with them early though. But it doesn't matter too much because you gain far more from killing them than having extended trade with them.

As to the treasures, it doesn't take much time to go and collect treasures with your dragoon before he kills native settlements (maybe ten turns tops) when you are exploring in latin america. The dutch and the english can't get nearly as many treasures as i can for the following reasons:

1. I can explore cities just like they do, but i send my dragoon to a part of the world that they never settle, let alone explore, aka mexico, latin america, and western south america (until much later in the game).

2. I have one scout exploring while my dragoon conquers; the scout also gets map of the terrain and treasures before my invasion, which makes war much easier.

3. I triple the amount of treasures others get because i get one treasure from the natives for meeting them and then next turn i take their village and get another. when i do this thirty to thirty five times I have more money then i know what to do with.

Also, in almost every game i send out another scout to raid enemy treasures as other players send them to their cities, sometimes ill round up five at once (happened once while the french sent their treasures through my mexican possessions).

For pirates, i don't know what would happen with the Dale/Snoopy PatchMod because i don't have it or know how to download mods onto the game ( i actually suck at using electronics?!).But to combat pirates i would either buy a frigate or two or build them in panama (in my major administrative areas i build dockyards) and load up some of my army to quickly get rid of them. the money spent on buying ships may cause me to have to wait a few more turns before i invade mexico or florida, but by that time i have my core cities in place and the rest of the cities i could get are just for "empire decoration." Although, you are right, if the pirate civ heavily pursues my shipping then i would be much more hard pressed for money to defend against them. Would be fun to see, because historically, the pirates were really that bad for the spanish.

As to the problems of continous war with natives with a single dragoon, i only do this with my latin american campaign. after that i set my latin american colonies to silver extraction and then i buy guns/horses, and a veteran soldier and a cannon to help with further wars (use guns/horses to build another dragoon to help out).

Yes i do micromanagement the old fasioned way of directing each and every wagon personally every turn..... I am completely surprised to know that you can get this automated. I'll have to try that.

Thanks for writing about this and exploring possible problems with my strategy.
 
I dont think its a good plan to attack with just one dragoon. Veteran or not he is just one unit and will get damaged when he gets into combat. It is true that as spainish if you have jose then you will get 2 or 3 promotions after your first kill. But you will not be able to use those promotions until after the natives launch a counterattack. Also some natives have the formation promotion to start with and they will be able to destroy your dragoon if you get caught in a forest. All natives have bonuses when attacking or defending in forests on the order of like 95% in thick woods and jungles.

I have found that you will never lose a fight with natives if you use one veteran dragoon to defend and one cannon to attack villages with. If you spot a native in the open on grassland or maybe even a hill with no forest then you can use the dragoon to take him out. Also you can attack a native city with dragoon after you kill the first few defenders, because the natives will pop out a defender that doesnt have time to fortify. I tend to sell guns and horse to the natives and then kill them all when they run out of gold. And even if they have guns this strategy works every time.

Of course when you go on to attack other players you will want to suppliment your 2 core units with soldiers to defend. And you should always get surgeon 3 on your vet dragoon so you heal up fast and keep up the offense.

Here are links to my spanish strategies, they are both geared for multiplayer but you can take elements of them into your single player games. BTW there is a forum for strategy guides and i think this thread should be moved there.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300331

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=302418
 
Draken's thread is about #6 among the articles:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=296271

I'm trying your strategy right now and I'm floundering a little...and tampering with it a bit, like a cook who can't resist fiddling with a recipe the first time out. I'm also reloading occasionally when things fail spectacularly.

The first time I attacked an Aztec village (go figure, they were in roughly their historical range) there were three braves, so my attack killed one, my defense killed one, and the third one killed me. The second time I attacked the southernmost village from the north, killed one brave and withdrew to heal...and got attacked and killed by a brave coming from the north. [No doubt you've noticed the terrain heavily favors the natives!]
For the third try I walked through to the south side of the village, attacked and died outright. I guess my veterans were weakened by disease.

Fourth time was the charm and IIRC the first attack gave my veteran 8 experience points. The gods smiled and there was no counterattack against my 0.4 health. After two more attacks I razed the village, getting a treasure...but no converted native. When I took the second village I got a native, but on the third and fourth villages I did not, so by eliminating the Aztecs I was able to found only one town, ahistorically named Cancun due to its location.

In terms of fiddling, my first trip back to Europe found an available Seasoned Scout along with a "free" master distiller, who I converted to a scout. I plopped both of these on the north coast of South America and proceeded to find at least a dozen treasures, most of 4-digit value. I also got so much miscellaneous gold that I was able to buy a galleon to get full value and a profit even after the breakeven 14,000 gold. Along the way I stuck a Jesuit in South Florida (where unfortunately I'm sure I'll lose him soon to the French) while generating tobacco in Havana.

With the galleon's treasures I bought two caravels, equipped two dragoons (militia), and picked up a silver miner and a farmer off the docks. The farmer went to Havana, the silver miner joined the native in Cancun. Note that my silver specialist doubles production (to 2) rather than tripling production. [This is in the vanilla game, not PatchMod.]

So your strat suggests that I turn south, but the pattern is not what you expected. The Sioux occupy all of South America north of the Peru-Uruguay line with a total of 22 villages. That suggests conquering that area rather than continuing down the Andes and pissing off both the Sioux and the Iroqouis (who have the rest of South America) at the same time. That will mean many fewer mountains and thus less silver. I also may want to consolidate Latin America--unfortunately with Europeans, not natives--before I eliminate most of my sources of native training...though perhaps I shouldn't be concerned about that training. [BTW, right now I'm at 1539.]

Onward!
 
I dont think its a good plan to attack with just one dragoon. Veteran or not he is just one unit and will get damaged when he gets into combat. It is true that as spainish if you have jose then you will get 2 or 3 promotions after your first kill. But you will not be able to use those promotions until after the natives launch a counterattack. Also some natives have the formation promotion to start with and they will be able to destroy your dragoon if you get caught in a forest. All natives have bonuses when attacking or defending in forests on the order of like 95% in thick woods and jungles.

I have found that you will never lose a fight with natives if you use one veteran dragoon to defend and one cannon to attack villages with. If you spot a native in the open on grassland or maybe even a hill with no forest then you can use the dragoon to take him out. Also you can attack a native city with dragoon after you kill the first few defenders, because the natives will pop out a defender that doesnt have time to fortify. I tend to sell guns and horse to the natives and then kill them all when they run out of gold. And even if they have guns this strategy works every time.

Of course when you go on to attack other players you will want to suppliment your 2 core units with soldiers to defend. And you should always get surgeon 3 on your vet dragoon so you heal up fast and keep up the offense.

Here are links to my spanish strategies, they are both geared for multiplayer but you can take elements of them into your single player games. BTW there is a forum for strategy guides and i think this thread should be moved there.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300331

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=302418

I admit it, it is a little haphhazard to attack natives with a single dragoon, i just usually attack once and retreat to heal. after i just get grenadier promotions to kill villages more efficiently. But if i lose my vet dragoon early on it can make for a really rough game. Also, love to have my vet sit on mountain tiles and randomly ambush indians as they pass by, eventually there cities are left open and i kill the last defender sitting there.

Also, i didn't know that there was a seperate section for strategy threads, thanks for pointing me in the right direction (a little new to this.....)
 
Draken's thread is about #6 among the articles:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=296271

I'm trying your strategy right now and I'm floundering a little...and tampering with it a bit, like a cook who can't resist fiddling with a recipe the first time out. I'm also reloading occasionally when things fail spectacularly.

The first time I attacked an Aztec village (go figure, they were in roughly their historical range) there were three braves, so my attack killed one, my defense killed one, and the third one killed me. The second time I attacked the southernmost village from the north, killed one brave and withdrew to heal...and got attacked and killed by a brave coming from the north. [No doubt you've noticed the terrain heavily favors the natives!]
For the third try I walked through to the south side of the village, attacked and died outright. I guess my veterans were weakened by disease.

Fourth time was the charm and IIRC the first attack gave my veteran 8 experience points. The gods smiled and there was no counterattack against my 0.4 health. After two more attacks I razed the village, getting a treasure...but no converted native. When I took the second village I got a native, but on the third and fourth villages I did not, so by eliminating the Aztecs I was able to found only one town, ahistorically named Cancun due to its location.

In terms of fiddling, my first trip back to Europe found an available Seasoned Scout along with a "free" master distiller, who I converted to a scout. I plopped both of these on the north coast of South America and proceeded to find at least a dozen treasures, most of 4-digit value. I also got so much miscellaneous gold that I was able to buy a galleon to get full value and a profit even after the breakeven 14,000 gold. Along the way I stuck a Jesuit in South Florida (where unfortunately I'm sure I'll lose him soon to the French) while generating tobacco in Havana.

With the galleon's treasures I bought two caravels, equipped two dragoons (militia), and picked up a silver miner and a farmer off the docks. The farmer went to Havana, the silver miner joined the native in Cancun. Note that my silver specialist doubles production (to 2) rather than tripling production. [This is in the vanilla game, not PatchMod.]

So your strat suggests that I turn south, but the pattern is not what you expected. The Sioux occupy all of South America north of the Peru-Uruguay line with a total of 22 villages. That suggests conquering that area rather than continuing down the Andes and pissing off both the Sioux and the Iroqouis (who have the rest of South America) at the same time. That will mean many fewer mountains and thus less silver. I also may want to consolidate Latin America--unfortunately with Europeans, not natives--before I eliminate most of my sources of native training...though perhaps I shouldn't be concerned about that training. [BTW, right now I'm at 1539.]

Onward!

Maybe my games are just a little luckier, because for the most part i don't lose my dragoon that often..... but for the early invasion i usually do what the Sun Tzu says, "attack where the enemy is weakest." i usually search a little for that the city where there is only two defenders, kill one, and the last one defending doesn't kill me because he is guarding the city. eventually after capturing the city the natives all rush toward my dragoon. heal my dragoon, and go on to kill more cities that have less pop. in the end they the natives lost too many towns to effectively defend themselves then it's easy to kill the rest. BTW i can't believe that you only got one native from that invasion!? i got atleast four.

In my first game with this strategy, i had to face the one set of natives in that covered all of northern south america with the aztecs taking up the southern half. I declared war on the northern indians, destroyed some ten cities in the west (by this time i had reinforcements from buying units with my gold.). the indians really don't mess with you though if you destroy ten of their cities in one war, they usually take a while to recuperate after that, which was the perfect time for me to completely wipe out the aztecs. the northern natives redeclare war way later on, but by this time i just wanted peace so i paid them to leave me alone (only 1000 gold!). After that their attacks increase as well as the number of troops they can commit to battle (especially if the french settle on the east coast and trade guns to them, darn french......), but it can be handled as long as you garrison a few cannons in key places (natives like to attack the area where they previously had cites, so just stick cannons in these border cities and the natives don't become too much of a problem).

ya...... ment to say double......

also if you need to, definately consolidate power after a while other wise the euros may come your way, but i haven't had too much of a problem with this. Tell me how your game ends up.:D
 
Smack, quite an interesting strategy. I think my strategy differs from yours most markably in regards to how many units are needed before the first indian invasion should start. tonight i am going to start a game and see if waiting for more soldiers before more invasions has a dramatic effect on my gameplay.
 
All you need is one cannon to attack native cities, one dragoon to defend that cannon and to kill straggler natives out in open turrain, and one soldier to defend your city.

If you add cannons to your force you will destroy cities faster, until you can destroy a city in one turn. If you add dragoons to your army then you can attack and destroy other players armies. If you add soldiers to your army then you can defend against other players armies, but keep in mind that dragoons can defend better than soldiers in open turrain, soldiers only have the advantage when defending forested hills and cities.

In my opinion when fighting other players its best to use one cannon, one soldier, and as many dragoons as you can create for your attacking stack. And keep two soldiers fortified in a fortressed hill city, keep horse in your city in case you need to change into dragoons to counterattack an enemy that is bombarding your defenses.

You mentioned that you keep your dragoon sitting on a forested hill waiting and then attacking things that come by. But you should know that dragoons get zero defensive bonuses, so that forested hill does nothing but slow down his movement.
 
also if you need to, definately consolidate power after a while other wise the euros may come your way, but i haven't had too much of a problem with this. Tell me how your game ends up.:D
Game still in progress (and likely to be so for some time!!!), but I didn't spend much time consolidating and marched my 3-stack of dragoons down to the isthmus, then added another vet dragoon, a militia dragoon, and a cannon. I marched out to destroy the nearest Sioux city and had no trouble doing so. This time I got a converted native as well as the treasure, and I sent that native back to build Panama City.

Then I had a touch of that old Custer feeling. I conducted a fighting retreat back to Panama City, losing only one dragoon in the process (yeah, "only" 17% of my whole army). I rushed a Stockade, dismounted a couple of vet dragoons, and watched 15 braves milling about on the nearby hills. Every now and then one would approach the walls and I would sally to spoil their attacks. It really paid to have a couple of dragoons with reduced terrain cost who could get out and back even into jungle. Eventually 9 braves moved adjacent simultaneously, I killed one with a sally, and then the other 8 assaulted the town. My two dismounted veterans killed every single one of them. My cannon never even fired.

Well, now it may be time to attack again, of course I don't know how many natives are over that next ridge...and marching toward any of the nearby villages opens the way for attacks from the other villages. I'm tempted to wait and plop a couple more cannon into Panama City.

Anyway, at a strategic level I've added Vera Cruz, La Vera (between two silver mountains on the road from Cancun to Vera Cruz), and of course Panama City, so I'm up to five towns. I built a Church in Havana so I'm starting to get a few "naturals" on the docks. Anyway, more anon...
 
I know, but if you put units on hills and especially mountains they have a greater line of sight, so i can see those enemy units before they get too close. it gives me the ability to judge if i should attack (if there is only one enemy approaching) or if i should flee (if there are two or three units coming). knowing the terrrain is half the battle.
 
Game still in progress (and likely to be so for some time!!!), but I didn't spend much time consolidating and marched my 3-stack of dragoons down to the isthmus, then added another vet dragoon, a militia dragoon, and a cannon. I marched out to destroy the nearest Sioux city and had no trouble doing so. This time I got a converted native as well as the treasure, and I sent that native back to build Panama City.

Then I had a touch of that old Custer feeling. I conducted a fighting retreat back to Panama City, losing only one dragoon in the process (yeah, "only" 17% of my whole army). I rushed a Stockade, dismounted a couple of vet dragoons, and watched 15 braves milling about on the nearby hills. Every now and then one would approach the walls and I would sally to spoil their attacks. It really paid to have a couple of dragoons with reduced terrain cost who could get out and back even into jungle. Eventually 9 braves moved adjacent simultaneously, I killed one with a sally, and then the other 8 assaulted the town. My two dismounted veterans killed every single one of them. My cannon never even fired.

Well, now it may be time to attack again, of course I don't know how many natives are over that next ridge...and marching toward any of the nearby villages opens the way for attacks from the other villages. I'm tempted to wait and plop a couple more cannon into Panama City.

Anyway, at a strategic level I've added Vera Cruz, La Vera (between two silver mountains on the road from Cancun to Vera Cruz), and of course Panama City, so I'm up to five towns. I built a Church in Havana so I'm starting to get a few "naturals" on the docks. Anyway, more anon...


Now that's how the spanish would have conquered the New world!:lol: I hope that you finish conquering the sioux and not leave them there for later like i did (they ended up being a like a festering wound on my empire......) keep us updated on your progress and your innovations to my strategy.:goodjob:

BTW, in my experience with natives in war the natives are really only good for one good invasion, but after that, their cities are pretty much defenseless.
:king:
 
You're right, the Sioux only mounted one concerted attack on Panama City. Mind you, they seem to have a lot of braves defending each village, sometimes more than 6 (the number of dragoons in my conquistador stack). I've eliminated about 15 Sioux villages--and accumulated some nice bonuses--but there seem to be more than 10 left, so they must be founding more. Cockroaches. It may get interesting when I destroy Sioux villages with English missionaries. ("Kill them all, let God sort them out.")

Predicatably, the bottom has fallen out of the silver market. Switching to other products, though some of my tiny South American towns aren't good for much else.

Would it have made a difference if I had waited to make a few really large silver shipments as opposed to many more smaller shipments? I don't know how that mechanism works.
 
You're right, the Sioux only mounted one concerted attack on Panama City. Mind you, they seem to have a lot of braves defending each village, sometimes more than 6 (the number of dragoons in my conquistador stack). I've eliminated about 15 Sioux villages--and accumulated some nice bonuses--but there seem to be more than 10 left, so they must be founding more. Cockroaches. It may get interesting when I destroy Sioux villages with English missionaries. ("Kill them all, let God sort them out.")

Predicatably, the bottom has fallen out of the silver market. Switching to other products, though some of my tiny South American towns aren't good for much else.

Would it have made a difference if I had waited to make a few really large silver shipments as opposed to many more smaller shipments? I don't know how that mechanism works.

I don't know the math behind it but i think it might have, but inflation really is hurtful in this game. what year is it for you? I haven't seen silver prices fall too drastically before 1600:confused:...... But if you still have a lot of money, i would send all my caravels to Europe, buy all their silver and watch the price of silver skyrocket. then resell all the silver and all the silver you've collected since that time :mischief:(got this economic strategy from another thread).
 
Ah yes, what that other thread calls "The Silver Trading Cheat." I wrote that it sounds like the Hunt Brothers. Maybe I'll do just that. I don't have many caravels (4?) but I have a galleon toting my dozens of Sioux treasures. (Pity they aren't Inca treasures! Unfortunately the Inca are in New England...or rather, New Amsterdam since the Brits are in Brazil.)

I'm in 1630 and silver dropped to 1 about 5 years earlier.

I feel like I'm floundering. My economy doesn't feel very strong, I have only 13 towns and I feel like I've been desperate for warm bodies all game. I have captured a lot of slaves--er, converted a lot of natives--during my campaign against the Sioux, maybe 12 of them. I used those to found 5 or 6 towns in your New Madrid area from Maracaibo and Bogota to about Quito. Nothing north of New Mexico though it seems if I'm going to go annoy the Tupi, this is the time. However, my relations with them are still Pleased so I don't have much threat there.

The only ones really Annoyed with me are the Dutch. They seem to have objected to my hijacking those three treasures and killing a couple of scouts that intended to intervene, but that was many decades ago. Some people have long memories.

I thought I may have made a serious mistake by telling the King to go stuff his tools, but Vera Cruz is pumping out enough for my whole empire as far as non-military needs are concerned, and Panama City is hip deep in ore and ready to go if I can ever finish the Blacksmith shop...and maybe get a couple of Smiths?? Things at Marathon take so LONG!

Meanwhile I'm very tempted to put a Privateer in the water (which means I have enough gold to buy a lot of silver!!). 6750 is a lot to pay for a fairly fragile ship, and I have very rarely recouped my investment in captured cargo, though I've severely hurt some foes. It may be too late, though I haven't seen any warships around. [I don't think a Privateer makes economic sense...but it would be fun.]
 
Hi,

I usually play as Simon Bolivar so I found your strategy very interesting. I lent my game to a friend so I cant try it right now but I will when I can.

I HAVE, in previous games, waged wars against natives and sometimes I am simply pushed back by the sheer numbers, while other times I would have amassed an army and be ready to attack but not being able to declare was because of Defensive Pacts that the natives would have signed, sandwiching me in between 2 or 3 hostile countries. How would you stratergy work with in these circumstances?:confused:

JB
(w00t first post!:D)
 
Hi,

I usually play as Simon Bolivar so I found your strategy very interesting. I lent my game to a friend so I cant try it right now but I will when I can.

I HAVE, in previous games, waged wars against natives and sometimes I am simply pushed back by the sheer numbers, while other times I would have amassed an army and be ready to attack but not being able to declare was because of Defensive Pacts that the natives would have signed, sandwiching me in between 2 or 3 hostile countries. How would you stratergy work with in these circumstances?:confused:

JB
(w00t first post!:D)

In my experience, you never want to get stuck between countries and do anything that is needed to get out of it. it might take a world war to just about do it (with natives :D). With the spanish all you need a constant war to kill someone, especially with a veteran dragoon and cannon in your army. with those two you would win the war, it just might take a while longer than a regular war with a single tribe :king:. BTW, greetings from the civ forum people because of your first post:goodjob:.
 
Ah yes, what that other thread calls "The Silver Trading Cheat." I wrote that it sounds like the Hunt Brothers. Maybe I'll do just that. I don't have many caravels (4?) but I have a galleon toting my dozens of Sioux treasures. (Pity they aren't Inca treasures! Unfortunately the Inca are in New England...or rather, New Amsterdam since the Brits are in Brazil.)

I'm in 1630 and silver dropped to 1 about 5 years earlier.

I feel like I'm floundering. My economy doesn't feel very strong, I have only 13 towns and I feel like I've been desperate for warm bodies all game. I have captured a lot of slaves--er, converted a lot of natives--during my campaign against the Sioux, maybe 12 of them. I used those to found 5 or 6 towns in your New Madrid area from Maracaibo and Bogota to about Quito. Nothing north of New Mexico though it seems if I'm going to go annoy the Tupi, this is the time. However, my relations with them are still Pleased so I don't have much threat there.

The only ones really Annoyed with me are the Dutch. They seem to have objected to my hijacking those three treasures and killing a couple of scouts that intended to intervene, but that was many decades ago. Some people have long memories.

I thought I may have made a serious mistake by telling the King to go stuff his tools, but Vera Cruz is pumping out enough for my whole empire as far as non-military needs are concerned, and Panama City is hip deep in ore and ready to go if I can ever finish the Blacksmith shop...and maybe get a couple of Smiths?? Things at Marathon take so LONG!

Meanwhile I'm very tempted to put a Privateer in the water (which means I have enough gold to buy a lot of silver!!). 6750 is a lot to pay for a fairly fragile ship, and I have very rarely recouped my investment in captured cargo, though I've severely hurt some foes. It may be too late, though I haven't seen any warships around. [I don't think a Privateer makes economic sense...but it would be fun.]

I don't know the specifics of how your empire is doing, but that sounds about right. your empire should just start to form around it's actual shape between 1630-1650. at this point you should have a decent sized army, an industrial city or two (at least) and be able to keep at least 2000 gold around without feeling too hard pressed. at this point, funds might start to drop a little, but after your empire goes through it's last "growth spurt" and you consolidate your territorial holdings, your economy should improve drastically from there. In my current game, at 1650 my economy was at three quarters of what my economy was in 1625, but now i am at my revolution (1702) and my economy has now not only got to where it was in 1625 but it is continuing to increase. I think you just stretch your financial resources a little thin, but it's more like an investment because later on you'll reap the benefits of spending all that money. Good luck with the game.

BTW, ya the inca do give a ton of money (got one treasure that gave me 5000 before i got the king to transport it for me!.)
 
In the game im referring to I eliminated my European neighbour pretty quick and because of my expansion, covering about a third of the continent, I was surrounded by 3 native tribes. Apparently they all had Defensive pacts:sad:.

I wanted to attack a weak one but if I did two large and strong ones would also have decared war...

I even got our relations to -25 but they WOULD NOT declare war. I was basically stuck in that area because I couldnt handle 3 native tribes at once. I even tried declaring war myself but got into such a mess that I reloaded. The problem I have with taking on 3 natives at once is numbers. They just have too many units combined!

JB
 
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