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SparGamez2: Carthage (Rise of Rome)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Sparthage, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Speaking of Carthage, we will actually need the luxury slider in order to get it to 3 turn swords. That entertainer will need to be used, so we will need lux at 10%. I did that and then that was when I noticed something with our specialists. Other then the fact that we have a lot of them, which may be changes, I was able to raise the lux slider and still gain 2 GPT. How? We had to many scientists. What I once I get farms is take the amount of turns on a tech down as low as possible, then leave all the remaining specialists as taxmen. Entertainers our our enemy at this point. They only serve one purpose, WLTKD in border towns. By border I mean 60-80% corrupt towns. After that I view them as not worth saving.

    I forgot to save my changes though, since I had to exit quickly, but I wasn't playing, just tinkering. I will post an updated save of this turn to show what I am talking about.

    Also, we should sell some of the more useless improvements like granary's in towns that can't grow.

    Math should be our next tech, then I propose going for the Great Library.
     
  2. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    I realized we had lots of scientists. But you know what they were there for? They all shaved one turn off research. If you take one out, than you get an extra turn of research. Really, don't bother with the luxury slider. It would probably cost us gold, and you can simply place a garrison in Carthage to get rid of the entertainer.
     
  3. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Really, because I was able to take away several scientists and raise the Lux slider, still gaining 2 GPT and not losing a turn of research. We don't have troops to garrison in Carthage, and that entertainer is hurting our production. Never hurt you're production. Here is what I prioritize, Food>Shields>Gold. Once a town has reached the max it can grow without needing a growth building, I change that to Shields>Gold>Food, and once it has that building I change it back until it reaches 12 or can't grow anymore.
     
  4. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    Do we not have pointless garrisons in other North African cities like Cirta, Leptis Magna, or Icosium that we can spare?
     
  5. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Not that we could move in one turn. That one turn calls for the lux slider, even if it is only one turn.
     
  6. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    One thing is for certain, we must build up a navy. If we let Rome control the seas, then we'll face an endless stream of Galleys carrying dozens of Legionary IIIs to our long coastlines. In my experience, the best way to beat Rome is to land in Italy. This forces Rome to keep their troops away from our core and busy fighting for survival in their own.

    As to the Great Library, I believe that we'll need a prebuild in Carthage or a nother high production town.

    And now, the Iberian cities. The Iberian cities are there because that's where we had several settlers at the beginning of the game. I did not care to waste a good 12 turns for some galleys to simply transport them back to Africa.

    Finally, we need to secure a horse source to build the ever useful Heavy Cavalry when they become available.
     
  7. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    That's why I said the road to the ivory colony outside Leptis Magna should go through the horses. But the north African settler is also about to build near horses.

    We also need way more workers.
     
  8. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Heavy cavalry are not as useful to us, I would be satisfied with war elephants for the time being, we can get cav's from the GL.
     
  9. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    I wasn't saying that the Heavy Cavs' tech should be researched next. Also, there is no guaruntee that we will get the Great Library.
     
  10. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    We are only playing on Monarch, correct? A good prebuild started now pretty much guarantees it.
     
  11. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    Nope, Emperor. By a unanimous vote if I remember correctly.
     
  12. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Oh, well we still have a good shot at it, but we will need a backup plan just in case, and this game just became a lot harder. Also, everything I said except about the GL since I despise wonders just became that much more important. I am going to put together a strategy post.
     
  13. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Well, I propose starting over, but that's unlikely, unless we lose. However, the current state of affairs involve 2 things. First, we must settle around Carthage. Second, we must build our workforce and military, especially our navy. I am posting a dotmap with proposed city sites. For the dots next to each other, a pink dot is the one I would not prefer. I have already posted most of my strategy, I don't think my plans for Rome need to be posted yet. Attached is a save of things I have changed without hitting space.

    Spoiler :

    One more thing, we are on turn 9 instead of 10, apparently Sparthage forgot about turn 0. The first turn of an SG doesn't count, so the first player get's an extra turn, so if it's fine with everybody I'll just play an extra turn to make it up.

    EDIT: In regards to the northernmost spot in my pic, we might be better off going 1NW to be one away from the fish, but we lose defensive positioning then, and looking at the borders, I think we will get that tile anyway.
     

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  14. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Actually, we will get tactics in one, since I will raise spending, and I assume math is our next priority?
     
  15. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Err...no, we don't:

    Spoiler :




    Also, we can get Tactics in 1 with no other changes except Sci slider to 70%.

    Edit: Oh, I see that Gamez already said that. :hatsoff:

    If I were playing the set, I'd set the sliders to 70% science, 30% tax, 0% lux and assign citizens as above. On the next turn, I'd reconsider the lux slider and MM again (Carthago will be able to hit 13 spt -- 4-turn war elephants -- at its current size with 10% lux once the workers finish their mine. 17 spt -- 3-turn 'phants -- will require 8 citizens and another mine).

    Other cities:
    Spoiler :

    Malaca has 1 scientist, and that's the best use of that worker this turn.
    Thenae has 1 taxman. I'd change it to a scientist and MM for growth -- we lose a shield that way, but it's a corrupted shield.
    Carthago Novo has a specialist, but it doesn't need the lux slider to put him to work.
    Caralis needs 10% lux slider to put its fourth citizen to work, but that doesn't gain us anything this turn -- that city is due to both grow and finish an archer (oops...change that to Barracks) this turn.
    Aleria has a geek, but he can work this turn.
    Olbia has a geek, but he can work this turn.
    Leptis Magna has a geek. He could work this turn, but we gain nothing by doing so.
    Gabes has one worker and one specialist, but it can work both tiles (gaining faster growth).
    Rusaddir has a geek, but he can work this turn.
    Tingis has two geeks. They can both work, but any shields they net are corrupt, and the city will grow on the IBT whether they're workers or geeks.
    Icosium has a geek, and that's the best use for him (MM other citizens for growth ... the spear is still due in 2).
    Carmona has a geek, but he can work this turn.


    Short version: None of our cities really need the lux slider this turn. Next turn will be a different story, but only for two or three towns.

    Of course, the situation will change in 5 turns, when Carthago can reach 13 spt.
     
  16. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I've been waiting over a month for my first turnset in this game. I'm not keen on waiting another month after restarting the game. It's not a perfect start, but I think we can make do.

    Agreed on all points except the dotmap. I think that the two city sites next to the Workers mining that gold hill will crown Carthago too much. Remove those two spots, and you'll have my endorsement.



    Eh, I don't think we need a strong defensive position for our cities -- we just need 4-6 swords and 'phants in the core to stop any invasions until our navy can clear the seas. Still, either of those two tiles would work.

    Also, thanks for taking the time to examine the game and start a strategy discussion. We'll do better as a team if we plan ahead like this :)
     
  17. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    I got bored and did this before you posted, just coming here to post since I just finished:

    Spoiler :
    Well, I went ahead and played the missing turn.

    Send out a docked galley, and managed to sink a rGalley of Romes. Egypt, Macedon and Persia all have Math, and since I beefed up science spending, I am getting tactics in 1, so I should be able to trade for it. Start moving units east in general.

    IBT: Romans send 1 legion at the stack on Sicily and win of course. That means 1 less unit to defend Carthage from the inevitable.

    Tactics > Lit

    Malaca: Worker > Galley
    Cirta: Numidian > War Elephant
    Carilis: Archer > Harbor
    Leptis: Magna Settler > Numidian
    Gabes: Worker > Worker
    Rudassir: Worker > Worker
    Tingis: Worker > Numidian
    Carmona: Worker > Numidian

    300BC: I upgrade the Spear at Aleria to a Numidian, 30 Gold. Whip a Rax at Olbia for 1 citizen. Bring exploring galley back, what are we going to discover? Also start to bring our settler pair back, such a waste. Move some workers.

    Then I visit Alex and sell him tactics, in return we get an alliance with Rome, his world map, and Math.

    Sell it to Darius for Dyes, World Map, 7 GPT and 237 Gold.

    Then Egypt for World Map and 277 gold.

    I don't see how the proposed city's around Carthago would crowd it, it's not like the city can actually use those tiles. I planned on having them use the other side anyway,
     

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  18. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Maybe we mean different things by "crowding"...

    I've attached a dotmap. First, note that the gray X marks are tiles being worked by existing cities.

    The "blue" city is left with no tiles to work if Carthago works 7 land tiles and "red", "white", and "green" cities all get up to size 7.

    It's not a huge problem if you keep all those new cities at size 5, but if we want enough shields per city to build 'phants efficiently, I think we'll need larger cities.

    OTOH, the crowding won't happen for at least 30 turns or so. Depending on how we used the towns (e.g. "red" is a worker pump that never goes above size 4), they might never be *too* crowded.
     
  19. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    My plans for the city south of Carthago were for it to stay at size 3 or 4 and let the others grow. Also, those fish tiles are an excellent source of Commerce. Finally, why didn't Carthago grow? It's on a river. :confused:
     
  20. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

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    Ok, here is a second dotmap. Made this one with CAII and it has numbers also, I put those in the order I think that we should found the cities.

    Spoiler :
     

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