Special Counsel Issues Indictment Against 13 Russian Nationals Over 2016 Election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by FriendlyFire, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Unidentified American ? Trump Jr ????
    LOCK HIM UP !

    Also I pretty sure Obama was Satan, Hillary was more like co-satan

     
  2. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    The Trump administration was quick to point out that since these indictments don't specifically name of their people that means they must be completely innocent. Nothing to see here, move along. NO COLLUSION. SAD. NO IMPACT ON THE ELECTION.
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Well he does kinda have a point on the collusion thing. I'm not going to go as far as him and say this is definitive proof of no collusion, but the fact that we have finally reached the indictment stage of this investigation and none of Trump's people have been indicted (yet) would seem to indicate a very good chance that Trump's campaign will eventually be cleared of any wrongdoing in this matter. Or, at the very least, the investigation won't turn up anything solid enough to actually take action on regarding the Trump campaign's involvement in this.
     
  4. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    The indictment actually specifies "worked with an unidentified American." That's not a "we don't know who," that's an already known conspirator to be named later. No guarantee that they are involved in the Trump campaign, but, seriously, what other Americans have a motive to conspire with the Russians to influence the election in Trump's favor? The only reason they haven't been indicted yet is because Mueller is gonna squeeze them dry first.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Well...pretty much anyone that didn't want to see Hillary win.

    Yeah, that's why I put the "yet" in my post. However, I'm still of the opinion Trump's not going down for this no matter what. Even if there is evidence he colluded with the Russians, the government doesn't want to face the embarrassment of having to admit a foreign power was able to make us their puppet, so they'll likely sweep any such evidence under the rug and find some other scapegoat to blame that will allow the government to maintain some semblance of legitimacy.

    This is especially true considering public faith in the political institutions of this country are at an all-time low, so the government, both Democrats and Republicans, are going to be loathe to bring anything to light that would further damage the public's faith in our political institutions.
     
  6. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Mueller also just added additional criminal charges against manafort
    Iam guessing that these charges are somehow related to Identiy theft, and the use of Russians to send funds

    Maybe Putin can arrange an accident for Manafort ?

    Then there is going to be Trump and Family shady past. Mueller is certainly going to be find something, probably a lot of things
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    C'mon man. It's a big leap from "I don't want Hillary to win" to "so I'm voting for Donald Trump," but the leap from there to "so I'll conspire with Russians to make her lose" is beyond the capacity of the famous jumping frog, much less the average American. Whoever the player to be named later was, they REALLY wanted Trump to win. If I were a betting man my money would be on Manafort.

    EDIT: Apparently I should have been betting instead of typing.

    I think that so much of the public has already accepted that D'ump was the Russian's choice and they helped him win that saying so conclusively isn't going to do any further damage. Trying to help the big Don cover it up would be worse. I'd expect more of a "this is what we've learned from this and now things will be peachy going forward" than an outright denial.
     
  8. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    Dude, doubt Mueller's professionalism at your own peril. You might feel righteous by witholding judgment but cmon dude, nobody is gonna remember you for being skeptical until the point of return - they're going to remember you searching for an out to validate your skepticism.
     
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  9. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Now that it has been established that messing with our election is a crime, if someone aided the Russians they are open to conspiracy.
     
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  10. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    The problem goes beyond Trump though. Russians trying to influence the election through social media is one thing, but if it comes out that Trump colluded with a foreign power to get elected. the legitimacy of every other elected official will come into question, whether it is warranted or not. People will start thinking "if Trump used foreign help to get elected, who else has as well?" Is that really what we want to happen?

    The point is there are others out there besides Trump who have a motive to help the Russians. For example, I wouldn't put it past the Koch brothers to pull this kind of crap. And since Trump would be infinitely more friendly to their agenda than Hillary would, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think they'd collude with the Russians to get Trump elected at any cost.

    Of course I'm not saying that's what happened, just using that as an example of another entity other than the Trump campaign that could realistically collude with the Russians and actually influence the election.

    It's not Mueller's professionalism that I doubt. It's the professionalism of those above him that can silence him and end his investigation that I doubt.
     
  11. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I think it would be pretty easy to paint Trump as a unique case. For most of the electorate I think that would be pretty much automatic and require no painting at all. It might lead to a more extensive vetting process, like making release or at least examination of tax returns a mandatory prerequisite to run for office, but that wouldn't be a bad thing.

    The Koch brothers was a good suggestion for an alternative, by the way. Props to you. That might run into a known issue with the conspiracy laws though. If you and me have an arrangement where I'm investing in your business, and I have an arrangement with someone else to manage laundering their money, you can be charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering and a half descent prosecutor has a very good chance to make it stick. I think that pretty much any player so amoral as to work with the Russians was probably also deeply connected to the campaign, Koch brothers included.
     
  12. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I actually think the Koch brothers are smart enough to stay away from treason but we'll see.

    @Commodore

    The investigation is still underway. How you can take the current indictments as some sort of proof that Trump & Co are innocent of collusion is beyond me.
     
  13. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    So, apparently Mueller found additional evidence of bank fraud against Manafort.
    http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...k-fraud-to-manaforts-list-of-criminal-conduct

    I've been wondering, if Mueller doesn't find any prosecutable link of collusion between the Trump Organization/Campaign and foreign collusion, but does find prosecutable evidence of money laundering/fraud in the Trump Organization/Campaign, would our unedifying collection of miscreant congresscritters begin impeachment proceedings?
     
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    No. Money laundering and fraud will be prosecuted in New York courts after 2020. The interesting question is how the former president and his family being convicted on numerous charges and having their real estate empire seized under forfeiture laws is viewed. Will there be any shred of "protect the dignity of the office" left that would incline anyone to throw out pardons?
     
  15. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    Furthermore, get ready for a 868,924,632 hour long special on Banghazi, the deleted E-mails, and Uranium one to learn the real truth about the collusion tonight on fox news!
    (hint: it's all hillary's fault.....Obviously! Yep. Totally. Yugely! Sad. Boink!)
     
  16. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    A president can't pardon state crimes. The question of whether a governor would pardon him is interesting though.
     
  17. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    It's highly unlikely we'll see a Republican as New York governor in time for that to matter.
     
  18. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    If I had to pick one party which would "take the high road" for "the benefit of the sanctity of the office", it would be the democrats.
     
  19. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    Any precedent they would set with respect Trump after he leaves office can easily be turned on one of their own the next time the Republicans seize power. Republican voters won't care if the charges are absurd and baseless and they currently control 30-35 of the potential venues for any state crimes that a former POTUS might be charged with. Add in the fact that the current administration is working like hell to purge federal law enforcement and the intelligence agencies, and the Dems will be wise to be circumspect after Trump leaves or is removed from office.
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    I'm hoping that Melania will get fed up and squeal on her husband for immunity and cash from Donald's broken real estate empire.
     

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