Special Units won't upgrade in PTW ???

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Maximus72, Nov 7, 2002.

  1. Maximus72

    Maximus72 Chieftain

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    I was browsing thru the civilopedia and noticed that all special civ units are not upgradable anymore. That kind of sucks cuz I used to play as Iroquies and upgrade my mounted warriors to knights and cavalries. Now, they will all be obsolete. Any thought?
     
  2. Gen

    Gen Prince

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    I don't have PTW yet, but don't believe in this, there were some forum members posting about upgrades (eg. Gallic Swordsman to Medieval Infantry is free IIRC). And don't trust Civilopedia! Better check in editor.
     
  3. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    They upgrade. No cause for alarm. ;)
     
  4. Lt. 'Killer' M.

    Lt. 'Killer' M. Deity

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    check the FAQ for upgrade conditions - maybe you simply missed on of them? happens to me a lot! ;)
     
  5. Maximus72

    Maximus72 Chieftain

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    the editor shows that they UU can be upgraded but the civilopedia says they cannot. I guess that is another bug!!!
     
  6. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    You are now at least the 2nd person that has mentioned that the civlopedia says a certain unit can/cannot upgrade to another unit, but I can't find anything in the civlopedia talking about what units upgrade to. Do you have the 1.04 patch installed? Maybe the patch fixed this.
     
  7. tcjsavannah

    tcjsavannah Wow, it's been a while...

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    I know for sure that Berserk upgrades to Guerilla, which isn't really much of an upgrade. I mean, going from 6-2-1 w/amphibious attack to a 6-6-1 unit without amphibious attack ... I guess eventually you'd want to upgrade them, but I've still got plenty of them running around in my game.
     
  8. Buecephalus

    Buecephalus Bolo Mark XXV

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    I know the numidian warrior upgrades at least to riflemen, that's as far as I got in the SP game I was playing this week. My assumption is that they would've upgraded all the way to mech infantry if the game had gotten that far.
     
  9. Silverflame

    Silverflame OBJECTION!

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    Dont worry, they all upgrade.

    The only questional upgrade is the Numadian Mercenary. The editor says they upgrade to pikemen, but hoplites and impi upgrade to musketman! Somethings not right here...
     
  10. Buecephalus

    Buecephalus Bolo Mark XXV

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    Silverflame, see post above.
     
  11. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    Silverflame, I had been confused by all of this also. You need to look at each unit to see if the civ is allowed to build it. Numidian Mercenary upgrade to musketmen because Carthage is not allowed to build Pikeman (numidian mercenary has better stats than the pikeman). So after the mercenary it goes to pikeman, but since they can't build the pikeman it keeps going down the upgrade chain until they get to the next unit they are actually allowed to build.
    Greece also can not build pikeman. The Zulu can build pikeman, so they have the choice of building either the impi (for speed) or the pikeman (for better defense).
    All of this confusion because of how UU's fit into the upgrade chain. Many of the UU's end up upgrading into each other, since there is only 1 spot in the editor for what a unit upgrades to. For example, let's take horseman. We can't put in all the different knight UU's for the horseman to upgrade to so it works like this:
    horseman-->mounted warrior-->Knight-->knight UU for Civ A-->knight UU for Civ B-->knight UU for Civ C -->etc., etc., -->Cavalry
    A civ would start with horseman and just go down the line checking which units it can/cannot build, obviously bypassing any units that they lack the resources for and other civ's UU's. Since the spearman UU's don't have any units that it can be upgraded from, they can just bypass pikeman and go straight to musketman without breaking the upgrade chain. Why they didn't go straight from spearman to pikeman instead of spearman-->numidian mercenary-->pikeman I don't know.
     
  12. Maximus72

    Maximus72 Chieftain

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    it is not a question of wheather the UU's get upgraded or not. The question is if the Civilopedia is screwed up and does not show the right information. For example, go to the civilopedia (in play the world version) and look up Swordmen, u will see that at the bottom right of the Swordman info page it mentions "it upgrades to such and such". Now, look up the persian UU Immortal Warriors. It does not mention anything about an upgrade (which means u cannot upgrade it). Now, look up Immortal warriors in the game editor and u will see that the game editor says they are upgradable. So, I am saying the Civilopedia is not correct. Hence, the civilopedia is buggy and not reliable. This is why I posted this article to begin with. thanks for all your replies by the way....
     
  13. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous ...but I do know Shinola

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    Maximus72,

    I was just about to tell you that you must be out of your mind...and then I thoroughly searched through the civilopedia and discovered that you are in fact very much correct.

    Many of the units listed in the civilopedia don't show that they upgrade to anything while the game editor clearly shows that they can be upgraded. It seems to be mostly (but not exclusively) UUs, and not just the UU that were added in PTW.

    I've played many a game as the Chinese, so I looked at the Chinese Rider to see what was going on. I'm sure most everyone is familiar with what the civilopedia looks like when you've pulled up a particular unit. If the unit is upgradable then there should be a hyperlink in the middle on the right hand side with the name of unit that it upgrades to.

    Back to my example. I am well-versed in the fact that Chinese Riders can be upgraded to Cavalry, but looking at the civilopedia there was no link, no information, no nothing to give one the impresssion that it could be upgraded.

    But checking the game editor, it clearly showed that Riders can be upgraded to Cavalry.

    NOTE: As per the civilopedia in PTW, there is no indication that even a SPEARMAN can be upgraded, and we all clearly know that that is simply not the case.

    So what's the deal?

    QUESTION:

    Has anyone had any trouble upgraded ANY unit in PTW?

    If no one has had any upgrading problems, then it would seem clear that there is a definite glitch with the civilopedia.
     
  14. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk The Builder

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    I think the civilopedia is probably being confused by the convoluted string of events involved in upgrading UUs that Bamspeedy explained.

    Take Bamspeedy's example: the game goes through this order when determining UU upgrades to cavalry:
    So when the Civilopedia goes to determine what 'knight UU for Civ B' upgrades to, it finds an impossible entry ('knight UU for Civ C'), and instead of continuing the logic, it simply stops and leaves the upgrade slot blank.
     
  15. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous ...but I do know Shinola

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    Perhaps you're right, but what the editor in PTW does with regard to "upgrade paths" is exactly the same as the editor in regular Civ III. It followed the same exact process of "convoluted strings".

    After all, it's the only way that units available to every civ can be upgraded to UUs that only one civ can build.

    How else would you be able to tell the game to allow a warrior to be upgraded to a Swordsman for the Aztecs (for example), but that a Roman warrior should be upgraded to a Legionary? Or that a horseman should upgrade to a Knight, unless that horseman belongs to the Chinese, at which point it should then upgrade to a Rider?
     
  16. Tilarium

    Tilarium Grand Lord

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    Speaking of upgrading.... has anyone noticed that if you upgrade an elite unit now it becomes a veterian? :( Don't understand it myself, if it's an elit unit it should stay elit.

    Kyle
     
  17. Silverflame

    Silverflame OBJECTION!

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    No, I think it sorta makes sense since youre upgrading in a barracks and the units previous experience has been lost since its using a different weapon. But I think that when you upgrade regulars you should get veterans.
     
  18. Cantankerous

    Cantankerous ...but I do know Shinola

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    It's always been that way as far as I know.
     
  19. Tilarium

    Tilarium Grand Lord

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    I know in the original unpatched version they stayed elit. It must have been changed with one of the patchs and I just never noticed it before. Only reason I noticed this time is thanks to one of my favorite features in PTW. My renamed 1st Division went from elite to veteran when I upgraded from musketmen.

    Kyle
     

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