Specialists? Never used them.

[IlyaZ]

What's all the talk about specialists? Why bother managing them? Why remove people from work outside the city?

What's a free specialist?

Sometimes wonders give me free specialists. How does it appoint them automatically?

How do I know how many free specialists I've got in a city? Can I change their specialization without getting any penalties or sacrifice any working pops?


I used specialists in some older civ, maybe civ 1 or civ 3. Unhappiness was much more dangerous and required entertainers to be solved. But now I don't see the purpose of this any longer.

 

[DigitalBoy]

What's all the talk about specialists? Why bother managing them? Why remove people from work outside the city?

Mostly for great people, but they can also be useful for slowing city growth when a city is close to its happy/health cap. They're also competitive production-wise with tiles if you're running representation.

What's a free specialist?

Free specialists don't count towards your city's population; they're a specialist you get without having to take population away from working tiles. Since they don't count towards population, they also don't consume food or contribute to unhappiness/unhealthiness.

Sometimes wonders give me free specialists. How does it appoint them automatically?

How do I know how many free specialists I've got in a city? Can I change their specialization without getting any penalties or sacrifice any working pops?

You can assign a free specialist any way you want (so long as it's a free specialist, and not a free scientist, free priest, etc.) without any sort of penalty.

 

[Spearthrower]

Hmmm - this could be either a short or a long answer... I'm going to go for the short and hope others feel inclined to fill in.

Why bother managing them? Why bother doing anything in a game - it's for enjoyment purposes - you can gain a lot from managing your specialists.

Why remove people from work? Because you can often gain more from the specialist or at least tweak to what you need - sometimes an engineer specialist will greatly increase your hammer production compared to available tiles, for example.

What's a free specialist? It's a specialist that you dont need to support with food.

Wonders automatically appoint free specialists when it names the type.... when it is just a "free" specialist, then you can select what type of free specialist you want.

How can I know how many free specialists? Hover over their icons on the right hand side of the city screen - they'll have (free) on their tag.

You can change specialists as and when you like with no penalty.


Completely remove your idea about specialists from Civ 3 and below - the new ones are vastly different in functional terms.

 

[scu98rkr]

great people points !

 

[TravellingHat]

Specialists can be used to tailor your economic/cultural efforts towards a specific end:

Getting behind in research? Run scientists.
Bit short of cash? Run merchants.
Suffering cultural pressure? Run artists.
Etc.

You need to have the right buildings and/or civics for the relevant specialists to be available, and assuming they're not free, you need your land workers to be generating enough surplus food to feed the specialists.

Also, as already noted they contribute great person points. There are too basic schools of thought on using specialists to generate great people:

Specialise a city (only run, say, scientists, and avoid wonders that don't contribute great scientist points). The advantage of this method is you have more control over what great person you'll get. The disadvantage is they'll take longer to generate.

Get maximum points from a city, running as many specialists as possible, and concentrating wonders. You'll need a lot of food, and as high a population as possible (so some happiness and health management needed). The advantage of this method is you'll be generating a lot more great person points in that city, so you'll get them much faster (particularly if you build your National Epic here). The disadvantage is you have less control over what type of great person you'll get.

I used to be a bit of a purist, but recently I've gone for quantity over choice, and I'm coming to think this is a better method as you get a lot more great people, and they're all useful for something. However, there will doubtless be purists out there that disagree. It's just a matter of choice.

 

[mrt144]

I agree with travelling hat in regards to being a purist;

at this point in the game development BTS has pretty useful applications for all great people now, with the exception of prophet towards the end game (which is okay, i guess). simply having a GP is way better than not having a GP.

 

[Legal_My_Deagle]

I am not really far enough in my coming as a Civ4 player to have manged my specialists though I know the basics of what you can do with them...

However I have a question about how they work...

Is changing your governer-set specialists like changing your city's citizen working tile placement, in that it seems to turn off the governer AI for that Civ?

If so, that would spell doom for me, because I am not really to control 8+ high population cities every turn by individual citizen. It seems sort of tedius, however not that long ago relatively speaking I thought it would be too tedius to not automate workers...

So are there any tricks to getting around causing a lot of extra work for yourself?

 

[LegionSteve]

If you have the governor on working the tiles, you don't have complete control of your specialists but you can influence it. If you click the + button next to, for example scientist, you should see a scientist with a yellow box around him. That means the governor can't take him away. It also means (I think) that the governor will follow your lead and prioritise scientists over other types if it can.

 

[eewallace]

I seldom bother much with any type of specialist other than scientists. Those are pretty crucial to keeping a tech lead, as far as I'm concerned. (Also, for producing great scientists, which are the most useful great people other than maybe great generals.)

 

[IlyaZ]

Ok thanks, I'll consider using them next time I play. I never picked civics related to specialists before either. But now when I know what it's about it'll be a different story.

However, are there really no benefits of having a lot of non-specialists instead of specialists? Is a healthy city with few pops better than an unhealthy one with many pop in terms of production, culture etc?

 

[ASL Veteran]

I've got to say that I never really used specialists in the past and I always let the governor auto assign them with civ 4 vanilla. The thing I noticed now is that the governor almost never seems to assign any anymore so if you want to use specialists now it seems like you need to use them manually.

I am now a specialist convert however and I have to say it's almost like a light popped on and I've been able to successfully take my game to a new level ... (Prince actually ). What may seem obvious to the veteran players here is actually not so obvious to those learning the game (or have played for a while and never taken the time to dig into the mechanics). Two things started my little specialist 'revolution'. In one thread about the spiral minaret a poster named Axident made a distinction between Gold and commerce . My curiousity piqued I took a hard look at the city screen and noticed the obvious ... that a bank, market, or grocer don't modify commerce but they modify gold instead. Well if your research slider is up around 80% or higher your cities are probably not producing a whole lot of since all the commerce is being put towards . In effect, all your banks and markets are multiplying small numbers like a 2.75 or something like that. How to increase your then so that you are maximizing your banks? Merchants!! A merchant doesn't produce commerce he produces gold so your merchant's 3 is being directly modified by your bank and your markets etc. Two merchants with banks, markets, and grocers are probably producing around 11.5 gold if I'm doing my math the right way. This then has an immediate effect on your slider as well which then allows you to increase your commerce slider even further (your merchants are effectively paying for your city's maintenance cost). It's a bit of a snowball effect.

Several posters have also mentioned for research that it's the number of beakers that you are producing rather than your slider. Just realizing that has helped me get through the early expansion economic blues since I now regularly assign the scientists as soon as I've built my libraries. I then don't worry too much about the tech slider while I'm expanding, but after I've expanded I can now spend some time consolodating and bring my slider back up while the scientist specialists allow me to keep up in tech during the initial expansion economic problem phase. A nice side effect of that is that I produce a lot of great scientists early on. In one game I used my first great scientist to build the academy (modifying beakers not commerce once again) and I got another five great scientists and settled them all where the academy was. Just from those five great scientists modified by the academy I was getting 45 research points per turn (over 90 points over all at that city). I'm sure I could probably do better after I've spent some time mastering this (and I totally screwed up my national wonder placement in that game too, so I'm still figuring things out) but I'm now a firm believer that mastering the uses of specialists will most definitely improve your game.

Now, how many more posts do I need before I can get my own personal avatar in here

 

[Underdawg]

Hmmm.... I think a good solution to get you familiarized with specialists is to play a game with ONLY specialists and no cottages.

Research by using scientists for beakers and lightbulbing techs. Build academies in commerce rich cities, settle extras in Oxford city.
Well timed Great Merchants can give enough gold for a huge military upgrade and subsequent invasion of neighbouring lands with your new up-to-date soldiers.
Great people for corporations!
Bulbing techs is huge! Bulb to a tech to have a monopoly on it, and then trade it if need be to keep tech parity or don't trade it if it is a military tech and use your advanced military tech in war.
Pop a great prophet and bulb a religious tech to get a religion
Pop a great spy and infiltrate and steal techs
Pop a great engineer and rush build wonders


Specialists and great people expand one's gameplay greatly. Not to mention, I often have to rely on scientists doing my research after a hefty REX phase.

However, are there really no benefits of having a lot of non-specialists instead of specialists? Is a healthy city with few pops better than an unhealthy one with many pop in terms of production, culture etc?

Well to compare cities, you'll have to compare several factors

First, what is the city for? (Commerce? Great People farm? Production city? Border city?)
How many beakers are being produced?
How many hammers?
Any food specials?






Good post by ASL.

Gentlemen!! There's no fighting in here, this is the War Room!!

Damn did I love that movie.

 

[KWagle]

at this point in the game development BTS has pretty useful applications for all great people now, with the exception of prophet towards the end game (which is okay, i guess). simply having a GP is way better than not having a GP.

I haven't figured out a use for prophets at any point in the original Civ 4. Sadly, they are the great people I end up with the most of. I'd really be happy to be able to turn off religion entirely, until I find enough documentation on it to let me use it for something.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

 

[Willem]

However, are there really no benefits of having a lot of non-specialists instead of specialists?

Of course there are benefits. In most cases you're better off keeping your citizens on the land and working, but in some locations you'll have more than enough food for everyone so you can then add a few specialists as well. Don't make the mistake of trying to use them in each and every city, that's just a waste. But if you have a city that has a Corn farm and a couple of animal pastures as well, by all means create a Scientist or Merchant.

One exception to this is an Artist in your border cities. It's definitely an advantage having some extra culture being produced in a city that has it's border next to another civ's cultural boundaries.

Is a healthy city with few pops better than an unhealthy one with many pop in terms of production, culture etc?

An unhealthy city is just a waste, you're producing food that has no benefit. And usually a large unhealthy city is also an unhappy one as well, so you're getting a double whammy of waste. You're better off managing your growth and having the city grow more slowly than allowing it to become a metropolis in no time. Specialists can really help you with that. Myself, I almost never allow a food surpus larger than two in all my cities. If I have a location that producing more than that, I'll create a Specialist if I can. Even the computer plays that way. Your governor will automatically create a Specialist if your producing too much food each turn.

 

[Willem]

I haven't figured out a use for prophets at any point in the original Civ 4. Sadly, they are the great people I end up with the most of. I'd really be happy to be able to turn off religion entirely, until I find enough documentation on it to let me use it for something.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Found a religion or two and build Shrines with them. The extra cash you get can really help alot, especially in the early game. Great Prophets are also useful for Golden Ages, especially now that you can get your first one with just a single Great Person.

 

[Diamondeye]

Two merchants with banks, markets, and grocers are probably producing around 11.5 gold if I'm doing my math the right way.

...If I'm doing my math right (and I am), then two merchants will produce 6 (if you say they provide 3 each, although I believe it's actually 4), before modifiers. Since bank is 50% and market and grocer is 25% each, that's a 100% increase, resulting in a flat 12 - or 16 if I'm right about the merchants producing 4 each.

Sorry for the hairsplitting.

@OP: Yes, it pays bigtime to run specialists. For a little more advanced experiment, try playing Ramesses of Egypt. Have lots of cottages in all your cities - except one (preferably a holy city), run farms there. Then run lots of priest specialists there - the egyptian UB adds 2 available, temples add one, and Shrine adds 3. Have +% buildings in this city only. If you do this right, this one city will produce enough to keep your science slider at 100%, so that all of your other cities are pumping lots of out with their cottages. This works extremely well for me. EDIT: And of course settle later Great Prophets in this city for an impressive + city!

 

[ASL Veteran]

...If I'm doing my math right (and I am), then two merchants will produce 6 (if you say they provide 3 each, although I believe it's actually 4), before modifiers. Since bank is 50% and market and grocer is 25% each, that's a 100% increase, resulting in a flat 12 - or 16 if I'm right about the merchants producing 4 each.

Sorry for the hairsplitting.

@OP: Yes, it pays bigtime to run specialists. For a little more advanced experiment, try playing Ramesses of Egypt. Have lots of cottages in all your cities - except one (preferably a holy city), run farms there. Then run lots of priest specialists there - the egyptian UB adds 2 available, temples add one, and Shrine adds 3. Have +% buildings in this city only. If you do this right, this one city will produce enough to keep your science slider at 100%, so that all of your other cities are pumping lots of out with their cottages. This works extremely well for me. EDIT: And of course settle later Great Prophets in this city for an impressive + city!

I was taking the base 3 that each merchant produces and multiplying it separately by each building as opposed to as a lump 100%, so (3 x 1.25 = 3.75) + (3 x 1.25 = 3.75) + (3 x 1.50 = 4.50) which would make the total 11.50 gold. It is 3 gold for merchants btw (just checked the civilopedia) although a great merchant is 6 . The Artist is 4 so perhaps you were getting the two mixed up

 

[MrCynical]

I was taking the base 3 that each merchant produces and multiplying it separately by each building as opposed to as a lump 100%, so (3 x 1.25 = 3.75) + (3 x 1.25 = 3.75) + (3 x 1.50 = 4.50) which would make the total 11.50 gold. It is 3 gold for merchants btw (just checked the civilopedia) although a great merchant is 6 . The Artist is 4 so perhaps you were getting the two mixed up

Firaxis has a slightly curious approach to percentages. The percentages from buildings add rather than multiply, so the market/grocer/bank combo gives a total of +100%, so the final output is simply 200% of the base. 2 merchants therefore give 6 base gold, and exactly 12 gold with building modifiers.

 

[KWagle]

Found a religion or two and build Shrines with them. The extra cash you get can really help alot, especially in the early game. Great Prophets are also useful for Golden Ages, especially now that you can get your first one with just a single Great Person.

Ah, I didn't know that about Golden Ages. I need to start a new BTS game at basic difficulty so I can play through all the new features.

As for founding religion, I never manage to do that, because I'm usually on a fast track for what used to be called the republic or whatever it was (meaning for the equivalent civics) and also for production-related techs. AFAICT, there's not much incentive to switch away from despotism, like there was in previous versions of the game.

Feel free to clue me in--I don't actually understand a lot of how this works and feel the game is very under-documented.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

 

[weimingshi]

Great prophet is a great choice for settling later in the game, early on it can pop some crucial techs. settle your great prophets in your wall street city or production city, it will make an already good city into a magnificent one.