They could call the civ "Indonesia" and still use a Majapahit queen as the leader. We've had similar examples in earlier Civ games—Asoka was the leader of India in Civ IV, for instance. I suppose this time around they did go with "Siam" instead of "Thailand," though.
[Speculation] Indonesia/Majapahit/Srivijaya
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ImperialChaos
President
Yeah, I'd say Indonesia has a good chance of being included. I am rather ignorant on it's history though so I don't know which leader or possible bonuses it would get.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
My impression was that they said Portugal was the ultimate naval trade civ in the game, not the only one. As I've suggested i nother threads, Indonesia's focus could tie in other things with trade, such as, say, culture or food bonuses on trade routes or something, so they might not be 100% trade focused, but they still have something.
Doesn't have to be trade at all—they could have a CS-related UA (Majapahit apparently had a huge number of tributary states), a cultural one, a religious one, maybe something completely new. I don't think anybody could've guessed how Austria or Sweden were implemented in G&K, after all.
HeraldtheGreat
King
Personally, I doubt that the devs won't add at least a fair connection with trade, since that's hat many people associate them with; err, at least I do...
seancolorado
Deity
My thoughts as well. There would almost certainly have to be some sort of religious/cultural/food aspect tied into the city-state/trading/naval aspect. Think Siam, with an Indo twist
seancolorado
Deity
Two things make me wonder why Indonesia shouldn't be included:
-Dutch UA is named after their foreign endeavors but it wouldn't have garnered them the famous reputation if not for relations with Indonesia.
-Ed this morning:
Based on these connections to the Spice Islands, I would say it would be equally crazy to not have these types of mechanics and historical connections and not have Indonesia in some way shape or form. But given the Euro-centrism of civ I wonder if they saw Portugal as the naval-trade civ - as they've mentioned before - and thought that that would be sufficient, and so gave Indonesia Borobudur as it's only shout-out. For better or worse, I'm starting to think that might be the case
Thoughts?
-Dutch UA is named after their foreign endeavors but it wouldn't have garnered them the famous reputation if not for relations with Indonesia.
-Ed this morning:
Based on these connections to the Spice Islands, I would say it would be equally crazy to not have these types of mechanics and historical connections and not have Indonesia in some way shape or form. But given the Euro-centrism of civ I wonder if they saw Portugal as the naval-trade civ - as they've mentioned before - and thought that that would be sufficient, and so gave Indonesia Borobudur as it's only shout-out. For better or worse, I'm starting to think that might be the case
Thoughts?
Portugal being the trading civ doesn't disqualify Indonesia in my opinion. In my opinion Indonesia could be a trade-culture-religion civ. We know that religious pressure is exported via trade. Maybe part of Indonesia's UA could revolve around them exporting religion via trade quicker along with something else.
Hans Castorp
Prince
I am in entire agreement on the desirability of Indonesia, and I still think they could be the key to the mysterious civ-related resource they mentioned. But I honestly thought you had reopened this thread just to prove the gloaters on the Italy thread wrong about no-one caring for Indonesia enough to actually discuss it...
seancolorado
Deity
Lol, I reopened this because of Ed's quote above just a few hours ago which had me thinking about the Spice Islands and whether or not their references to it meant anything or if it's just a simple statement that Portugal was an international powerhouse
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I think people grasp at very small things with no intent significant meaning behind them and give them a overly-large meaning, such as disqualifying an entire Civ.
I'm not sure I believe Indonesia would be in either, but I see nothing here that disqualifies them.
seancolorado
Deity
I agree, but you wonder if they can make something different enough that doesn't overlap too much with either Portugal's UA or Siam's UA which, if they were never in the game, could be Indonesia's UA.
The religious pressure you mention is the one aspect not used and given Indonesia's religious syncretism (and unique tolerance to religion in the wake of getting bombarded by random international powers left and right) that would be a strong candidate for the UA
seancolorado
Deity
Aware of that. That's why this is a 'speculation' thread. Just something to keep the thoughts running until actual info is released.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Fair enough.
I don't see any contradiction there. The Dutch East India company was important for the Netherlands. It led to the rule over Indonesia, but that doesn't mean Indonesia was important before that point. Indonesia would likely represent their pre-Dutch eras.
The naval trade aspects are important. However, I had thought before this expansion that Portugal would be less likely than we would normally think because it would be hard to find something to separate them from England, the Netherlands, and Spain. From the look of things, Firaxis succeeded admirably. It's possible to think of something else for Indonesia were they to want to - especially because their UU and UB/UI would likely have very little in common with Portugal.
I don't know enough about Indonesia to make a truly educated guess, but how about:
+1 happiness for each city settled on the coast. Extra food for trade routes between your own cities.
That would represent the archipelago nature of Indonesia and the fact that it's one of the larger populations in the world. Their UB could represent their cultural aspects without much difficulty.
I don't see any contradiction there. The Dutch East India company was important for the Netherlands. It led to the rule over Indonesia, but that doesn't mean Indonesia was important before that point. Indonesia would likely represent their pre-Dutch eras.
The naval trade aspects are important. However, I had thought before this expansion that Portugal would be less likely than we would normally think because it would be hard to find something to separate them from England, the Netherlands, and Spain. From the look of things, Firaxis succeeded admirably. It's possible to think of something else for Indonesia were they to want to - especially because their UU and UB/UI would likely have very little in common with Portugal.
I don't know enough about Indonesia to make a truly educated guess, but how about:
+1 happiness for each city settled on the coast. Extra food for trade routes between your own cities.
That would represent the archipelago nature of Indonesia and the fact that it's one of the larger populations in the world. Their UB could represent their cultural aspects without much difficulty.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
At this point I still see Indonesia and Vietnam as the most likely contenders for a new Asia civ (with a Silk Road civ not too far behind). Given the Eurocentrism of the Civ series, it's a zero-sum game in this case. We'll see.
seancolorado
Deity
Which Silk Road civs?
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
I'm too lazy to look it up, but in the 1304701385701385 post thread about new civs, I posted a list of Silk Road civs I considered possible.
Out of all those possibilities, the ones I consider most likely would be the Timurids, followed by the long-shots in the form of the Khazars and Kushans (who have been mentioned by fans several times in other places). Other long-shot possibilities I considered were the Seljuks, Gokturks, Khitan, Uighurs... that's all I remember. Others I've considered since then would be the Sogdians, Parthians, some sort of Afghanistan civ (but focusing on an earlier history of Afghanistan, like the Durrani or Ghaznavids or something) But of those I'd say the Timurids have the best chance, if only because of Tamerlane.
Nirosi
Hymenopus Coronatus
Maybe Indonesia should import science from all civiliztions (even less developed) but also import all religions twice as fast.The candi will give a bonus for different religions that the ability is approved.Indonesia becomes a very multicultural/multireligional, developed civilization.
Hakan-i Cihan
Emperor
The spice island part let me think of an indirect/passive bonus to international trade routes. Indonesia could get extra bonusses (not necessarily gold) for trade routes from other civs to their cities. Since this bonus is not entirely in the players hand and could be a copy of the portugese UA the Indonesian UA could be accompanied with other elements.
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