[NFP] Speculation - Possible Game Mode

[Eagle Pursuit]

Ah, I get it, didn't realise we were into covertness.

Indeed. And I've already detected the same aptitude for clandestine perfidy in my own children.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I also don't think that's the case. if they "replaced" Great People (which they have done in the case of both Genghis Khan and Simon Bolivar) like they did with Venice (which replaced Antioch), they would have listed it the both times they did (This pack would've mentioned new City State and Pack 1 would've mentioned new Great People).

Whatever those Great People are brand new people. Also, again. The Mode has nothing to do with the Overall Pack in terms of content. If they added say Attila the Hun as a Great General as a new Great Person, he'd still be a new Great Person in the pack and be "removed" in the mode as a Hero Unit if that make sense?

Whatever the Hero units are, even if they are based of a Great Person would not mean that they'd be pernamently be removed as exclusives in the mode.

I agree with what you said. It might be the case of we might get several replacements along with totally new great people which is what I was trying to say.
I don't think they would go to the trouble of having say Boudicca as both a Great Person and hero unit though as that might be a little too confusing when playing with the game mode on.

When you guys were kids and there were birthday presents all wrapped up - you guys shook the boxes and tried to peek under the wrapping paper, am I right?

I'm sure some of us still do.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I agree with what you said. It might be the case of we might get several replacements along with totally new great people which is what I was trying to say.
I don't think they would go to the trouble of having say Boudicca as both a Great Person and hero unit though as that might be a little too confusing when playing with the game mode on.


I'm sure some of us still do.

I think the wording of our posts is getting us both confused.

No, if say Boudicca was a hero, and the heroes IS a mode, then she'd be replaced by a new Great Person.

However that Great Person is not the great person listed under the packs "New Great Person". if that make sense?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think the wording of our posts is getting us both confused.

No, if say Boudicca was a hero, and the heroes IS a mode, then she'd be replaced by a new Great Person.

However that Great Person is not the great person listed under the packs "New Great Person". if that make sense?

Yes I understand.
What I mean is hypothetically it could be the case of like Palenque in pack one where we got a replacement city-state for it plus six new ones.

 

[Futumch]

If there's any achievement about Heroes it better be called "We Can Be Heroes Just For One Day".

How about "Holding out for a Hero" (Bonnie Tyler, used in the film Footloose)

 

[Nerevatar]

Just a little tidbit of info/speculation I accidentally discovered. It was posted earlier about a new debug panel related to heroes. I tried to open it and one button was interesting, specifically the word 'next'. It indicates that there might be a "series" of heroes. That could fit in with the way Great People have "series" (Prophet, General, Writer, etc). Given that there is some discovery chance which someone else found, it seems to be supported.

Another speculation could relate to the lists (empty boxes here) and the code behind them. Heroes are discovered by each player and not globally, so "0" in the below code is the human player;
Game.GetHeroesManager() :IsHeroDiscovered(0, heroClass.Index);
This is supported by inspecting the code behind the Discover Next Hero button, which have the the following code, which refers to a Player in the naming:
pGameHeroes: playerDiscoverNextHero(0);

Another thing to note is the following code:
GameInfo.HeroClasses().HeroClassType
This could just be the naming of the datastructure without any meaning, but as a civ fanatic I have to speculate a bit. It would seem that heroes have both a class and a type. Since it is HeroClasses and HeroClassType it seems to be separate from unit type/class.

Also, heroes are units, as also indicated by the old chinese screenshot:
for _, unit in playerUnits:Members() do
if (unit:IsHero()) then

Finally, I find it interesting that there is a column called "Active Hero Type". This make it sound like a given hero unit can change it's type or something similar. Why else would the word "Active" be needed? "Hero Type" would be sufficient if it was static. Maybe "Hero Class" is static and is what is discovered and "Hero Type" changes during each game (leveling up with renown? when it returns to life after loosing all it's lifespan?)

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Great Find,

Something that I'm quite interested in:

Given that that these pnaels new its own Heroes Manager, it sounds like this game mode will actually be much more in thought and may actually be a completely new mechanic over an expansion of an existing mechanic.

Secret Societies are just fancy Governor titles, but the Heroes seem to be their own entire thing, so it is a small new feature we are getting at some point.

 

[AntSou]

Finally, I find it interesting that there is a column called "Active Hero Type". This make it sound like a given hero unit can change it's type or something similar. Why else would the word "Active" be needed? "Hero Type" would be sufficient if it was static.

I'm not sure I follow your confusion. The Active Hero Type would just be the individual hero unit active at that moment, no?

Hero Class is the category, so we get more than one I suppose, but I don't think that necessarily means something complex.

E.g. Could it be something as simple as LandUnit_Class and SeaUnit_Class?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'm not sure I follow your confusion. The Active Hero Type would just be the individual hero unit active at that moment, no?

Hero Class is the category, so we get more than one I suppose, but I don't think that necessarily means something complex.

E.g. Could it be something as simple as LandUnit_Class and SeaUnit_Class?

And/or AirUnit_Class: Introduce the Red Baron, his nephew Wolfram, Kozhedub, Fonck, Guynemer, Ball, etc. to the game. I've already posted how Raskova would be a better fit as an Air Unit or Air Related Heroine than as a Great General . . .

There could also very well be a CivilianUnit_Class. like the suggested Corps of Exploration (Lewis & Clark Expedition).

Lots of possibilities, since we are largely speculating in an Information Near-Vacuum here.

 

[Haig]

As the heroes are going to be units instead of great people, I wonder if they are more like famous regiments -type heroes.

Like some boosted units that get fame. Real life history has plenty of those too like SAS, Coldstream guards, the 300 spartans of Leonidas. etc

 

[Karmah]

If there's any achievement about Heroes it better be called "We Can Be Heroes Just For One Turn ".

Fixed it for you

 

[Nerevatar]

I'm not sure I follow your confusion. The Active Hero Type would just be the individual hero unit active at that moment, no?

From a software perspective, an object (in this case a hero) would usually be identified by it's ID, so the Active Hero Type would not be the way to identify an individual hero unit. Furthermore, the data in the Active Hero Type column is the type of the unit as shown in the code from the panel:
local unitType = unit:GetType();
local unitTypeStr = GameInfo.Units[unitType].UnitType; [Nerevatar note: unitTypeStr is then mapped to the Active Hero Type column]
So my speculation is rising from the fact that Firaxis felt the need to put in the word "Active". Normally, a given unit will only ever have one type - the unit type is static. If that was the case for heroes, then one would assume the column could just be named "Hero Type", since it would never change. But using the word "Active" indicates that it can also have an inactive unit type, which again indicate that it can change unit type.

The above is of course pure speculation based on wording and the code of an officially-unreleased debug panel. But as I said, I still find it interesting.

Hero Class is the category, so we get more than one I suppose, but I don't think that necessarily means something complex.

E.g. Could it be something as simple as LandUnit_Class and SeaUnit_Class?

I agree that this does not indicate something complex, and if NFP has shown us anything the devs are not trying to invent new complex systems, they are instead working within the existing framework(s). And I don't mean that as a necessarily bad thing.

I think you might be onto something. I imagine it could be something like: There is X different heroes classes, like Explorer, Fighter, Politician, Industrialist, Theologist, etc. Then their type might be Land, Sea, Air, (Although that would normally be called Domain in the code so less likely) or more likely follow the normal unit types such as :

So an Explorer Hero might be of the type UNIT_RANGER or UNIT_SCOUT. This would make sense for the Active Hero Type column as well, since an Explorer hero would then be able to assume different types throughout the ages. So you could have 3 Heroes of the class Explorer on the map, but they would have different unit types. They can then gather Renown based on their class (or just generic objectives to keep it simple) until their lifespan runs out, and they also have some specific action with charges based on their class.

Will be interesting to see when this gets released.

 

[Vilvatiktan]

With Covid-19 still raging and thriving, I kinda bet they won't be putting the plague mechanic in the Black Death Scenario in the NFP...
So, is there any possibilities that anyone will ever make it into a mod or is there any available one for Plague add-on mod?

 

[Flactine]

I think if the "hero" is a real historical figure, then it is possible to duplicate with "great person". Therefore, heroes may be mythological figures, such as Zeus, Nu Wa, and Susanoo

(Who will be American mythological figure?)

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

I think if the "hero" is a real historical figure, then it is possible to duplicate with "great person". Therefore, heroes may be mythological figures, such as Zeus, Nu Wa, and Susanoo

(Who will be American mythological figure?)

Paul Bunyan, potentially.

 

[Leah and Rachael]

Random idea that came to me. A single, small tweak to Victory Conditions in order to make them more interesting to go after: a Countdown Timer mode
Once you 'trigger' the victory, you get a set amount of turns (say, 100 turns on Standard) in order to win. If you don't, the Victory Condition is disabled for you (and not any other players). If you fail to win after two victory countdowns run out, you lose the game.

DOMINATION VICTORY
The VC is triggered the moment you conquer the first Capital.

CULTURAL VICTORY
When you gain enough tourism to be dominant over 40% of the civs in the game.

SCIENCE VICTORY
After building your first Spaceport/researching the first Information Era tech. This means you get 50 turns to launch an Exoplanet Expedition (without boosts)

RELIGIOUS VICTORY
When you convert the first Holy City

DIPLOMATIC VICTORY
When you gain at least 10 Diplomatic victory points

PS: in addition, other Civilizations start exerting extra Loyalty Pressure over your cities. Pressure increases with every next 'step' in your Victory route. That is, every conquered/converted capital, every diplomatic point earned, every space-race project completed, and every civ you gain tourism dominance over

 

[shaglio]

Paul Bunyan, potentially.

This, and possibly Johnny Appleseed

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This, and possibly Johnny Appleseed

John Henry, the steel-driving man.

Pecos Bill

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think if the "hero" is a real historical figure, then it is possible to duplicate with "great person". Therefore, heroes may be mythological figures, such as Zeus, Nu Wa, and Susanoo

(Who will be American mythological figure?)

John Henry, the steel-driving man.

Pecos Bill

Joe Magarac, the legendary steel worker.

And actual people who became legendary, some of them not in a 'good way':
Jesse James
Black Bart
Bonnie & Clyde
Johnny Tremaine
Davey Crockett
Jim Bowie
Daniel Boone
Jim Bridger
Nat Turner
Mollie Pitcher

etc., etc.

 

[Myomoto]

With Covid-19 still raging and thriving, I kinda bet they won't be putting the plague mechanic in the Black Death Scenario in the NFP...
So, is there any possibilities that anyone will ever make it into a mod or is there any available one for Plague add-on mod?

There's already a mod that imports the assets from the scenario to the main game. I don't know if it's up to date with the current version of the game - check the workshop.

I really hope we get a epidemic/pandemic mode. People can say it's insensitive at this time sure, but we're living in a historical pandemic - of which there has been many, and they have significantly altered the course of human history. It's in my opinion a greatly missed opportunity to not have disease play a bigger role in the game.