Sphener should be able to fly
- Thread starter Ice Wolf
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thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
He's an angel... somehow I don't think he'll have trouble flying.
I think all the winged units should be able to fly, and in fact, usually use WB to give them flying.
I think all the winged units should be able to fly, and in fact, usually use WB to give them flying.
Annex
Tyranny and Mutation
Well if you give Sphenor flying, you have to give a lot of other units flying as well (Brigit, Angels, Angel of Death, etc)
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I typically give Flying to every winged unit except the basic angel (in xml, not WB).
Maybe their wings don't work in the gravity and plane of erebus.Onionsoilder
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Giving angels flying would actually weaken the Mercurians. Flying units can't utilize the Raiders trait much, and Basium himself doesn't have wings, meaning he couldn't travel overseas with his armies.
He is. It's even been parodied in a quote somewhere in FF/FF+. The thing is, MC's modmod is a complete overhaul of many of the mechanics of the game, and as such it has an incredibly long development time.
As for Sphener, doesnt the lore say that he's forsaken his status as the Archangel of Junil and therefore lost many of his angelic abilities?
Onionsoilder
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Basium was the Archangel of Life.
No, he was Arawn's Archangel, therefore he is the Archangel of Death. He left because Arawn wasnt doing anything, and its also how he gets the souls to make new angels- because he knows the ways between Erebus and the Netherworld.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
It isn't that much of a complete overhaul. I don't intend to change nearly as much as FF does, but my changes are mostly improvement to how things work rather than sprawling additions.
I'm not fully decided about many of my ideas, and implement them differently in versions. I start over fairly often, as my attempts to update to a new version of FfH or FF often don't go well otherwise and sometimes even without merging I end up breaking something and never find out what. I have several versions on my computer, since I haven't taken the time to try to move features I like from a broken version to a working one. Generally I just make minor tweaks to the main mod or FF as I play. It has been quite a while since I really tried modding in earnest, mostly due to being busy with school. Modding stagnated more once I decided that I wanted to use the FF schema/dll as a base, but would have to strip out most the non-vanilla FfH content before really starting. Making a de-moded FF seems rather daunting.
Sphener never was an Archangel. Junil's Archangel is Sabathiel. Sphener was however a true angel (created as an angel rather than processed from a mortal soul) and seems to have had a fairly high rank in Junil's complex hierarchy and an important role in the rituals that take place in Junil's throne room. We know Sphener had a twin with the same rank and abilities, and that before he decided to fall they always mirrored each other to maintain some divine symmetry.
Sphener chose to fall, just as Cassiel and Basium chose before him. I suspect the regulations allowing an angel to fall were written when these two angels refused to abide by their gods' orders, and are rather punitive. The main punishment for falling is loosing their god' ara. An ara is the protection the god provides against the other gods. I suspect it may also mean loosing a connection from which the angel would otherwise have been able to draw a nearly infinite supply of their god's mana. Before the compact 2 gods had withdrawn their ara from their archangels. Aeron was forced to withdraw his from Odio when Odio ignored the ceasefire made in order to allow the negotiations at the Seven Pines. Kilmorph was only able to draw him into a prison of rock once Aeron's ara was removed. Previously Sucellus had withdrawn his ara from Cernunnos when the latter insisted on leaving their peaceful lands and track down his son Gower. Cernunnos felt like his soul had been ripped from him and became quite vulnerabel to depression in Agares vault, but because of his love for his son he was able to land the only successful blow anyone but The One ever landed against Agares even even without an ara. I assume that Sucellus gave him his ara back when he intervened to save his archangel and entered the Godswar. A fallen angel may be weaker, but can still be quite strong.
Falling also makes angels mortal, sort of. They still don't age and are invulnerable to illness, but they can be killed violently (as seen at the end of the Blood of the Angels scenario when Auric murders Cassiel; Cassiel likely had more than enough power to defeat Auric, but would not use the power lest he risk being worshiped as a god, similar to how he refused to use his ability to heal the victims of a plague and so founded the Ordine Medicos instead). Before falling, a violent death could at most banish the angels/demons to their god's vault temporarily to heal. They could probably come back almost instantly, but would be very weak without the time to recover first. Some of Kael's posts (and Aurics words in the scenarios) seem to imply that falling means the god's vault will be closed to the angel/demon, making him unable to heal and thus meaning his death permanent. I prefer to think that a fallen angel is treated the same as a mortal. Instead of going to his god's vault body and soul, the soul alone moves on and needs considerable processing before a new spiritual body can be made. The angel could return to his old god's vault if he remained devoutly loyal to him, the same way a devout mortal would. If not loyal to any god, and former angel would just go to the Netherworld. (I suspect that Basium intends to use this to cheat; as the former archangel of life, he knows several passages he could use to escape from the Netherworld and return to Erebus to keep fighting, even is he has to possess a mortal instead of regenerating his old body.) Most fallen angels have probably betrayed their gods completely, and are more likely to go on to serve their enemies. Sphener fell in order to help Junil keep an oath, so Junil is still quite fond of Sphener and would likely welcome his back. I have a feeling that the Compact may only ever let an angel fall once though, so gods cannot encourage their servants to nominally rebel in order to circumvent the restrictions of the compact.
Sphener can no longer perform miracles on his own, but his memory of his former service likely leaves his the equivalent of an Archmage of Law magic, a high priest of Junil, and an experienced warrior combined. No mortal understand divine law and rituals as well as him, so no one could pray as effectively.
Sphener's evil equivalent Mardero is not a fallen demon, but a cambion conceived specifically to get around the Compact. (In the D&D campagn he was half demon and half angel of Oghma, so that he would be immune to the effects of the mists that made Mammon's invasion force insane amnesiacs.) I suspect that he is the son of Hastur, Lord of Nightmares and Archangel of Mammon, himself. Now that Cernunnos is a god, Hastur is probably the most powerful of all the archangels. It seems that he orchestrated all the acts that almost led Tebryn to destroy the world (including manipulating the most evil and likely most powerful goddess, Ceridwen), purely as a distraction to keep Condatis unable to protect Danalin from his control. His influence over the sleeping Danalin may actually give him more power than any god (as it seems a god's subconscious mind may be stronger than his conscious, and not bound by the compact), but that part of his power probably would not be passed on to his offspring.
Onionsoilder
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Nope. Basium was Nemed's Archangel, but then Nemed turned mortalish. That's why Basium wanted Arawn to give him the Sphere of Life and let him ascend to the new God of Life, but Arawn gave it to Secullus instead. I suspect Basium is quite pissed at both Arawn and Secullus right now.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Nope. 
No archangels had been created yet when Nemed gave up his sphere. Basium WAS created by Arawn, along with his twin Gyra. Basium served as the Archangel of Life, Gyra as the Archangel of Death.
You were right about why he was pissed off, though.
No archangels had been created yet when Nemed gave up his sphere. Basium WAS created by Arawn, along with his twin Gyra. Basium served as the Archangel of Life, Gyra as the Archangel of Death.
You were right about why he was pissed off, though.
Onionsoilder
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Oh, my bad. I thought they already made their archangels before Gabella revolted.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
No, Basium most certainly was both the Archangel of Life and Arawn's Archangel (one of them). Nemed never created any angels. None of he original 21 angels/gods created any angels until after The One severed Erebus from the true heaven, which was after Nemed became a man. Nemed's second, mortal wife is older than any archangel.
Nemed gave his precept of life to Arawn just before he became human. He was still dominated by this precept when he convinced the gods that mankind should be immortal, which would cause him much suffering. Arawn had been strongly opposed to it, arguing that The One intended nothing in Creation to last forever, but he gave in to the majority after Mammon decided that Gabella should be immortal so she would not have to fear death (which he feared), and since he believed that it wouldn't matter as The One would soon destroy them all. Arawn did not fight this, as he was dominated by the precept that stands for resignation.
Archangels were the first angels each god made. Each god made one archangel near the beginnign of the age of Dragons, with two exceptions (three is you count Nemed, but he was not a god anymore so he doesn't count).
Agares never created any angels, but only corrupted them. His archangel, Hyborem, is a corrupted copy of Cernunnos, Sucellus's archangel. Cernunnos was at the time the most powerful archangel (although pehaps weakened by having lost Sucellus's ara at the time he invaded Agares' hell), and would later go on to be the weakest god.
As Arawn controlled two precepts, he made two Archangels, often called "The Twins." These are of course Basium, Archangel of Life, and his sister Gyra, Archangel of Death. Gyra was responsible for guarding the passageways souls used to reach the Netherworld from Erebus (The Wells of Creation), while Basium guarded those used to come back (which Arawn pretty much always left locked anyway, but Sucellus opened them again).
Gyra is pretty much the only one trying to fight Laroth. Arawn won't tell his angels to help because he doesn't believe this mortal could be a threat, plus he likely may just not care anymore care anymore. Losing the precept of life may have made him even more resigned to fate than the was before. She was also the only one to try to fight Tebryn originally, but she failed. It is not clear whether she was imprisoned inside Tebryn's rune or simply stopped from leaving the netherworld through that passageway.
I assume that Arawn did not do much to limit Basium during the Godswar. The God of Death was personally one of the least involved gods. He was also surprisingly busy, as he had opened his vault to mortal souls and after a very slow trickle at first he wasn't really prepared for the influx caused by the height of the war. Gyra was likely pretty busy, but Basium did not have so much to do so he was free to wage war on demons on his own.
The essence of like is perseverance coupled with a willingness to sacrifice for the greater good. It also involves healing to a greater degree than any other sphere can. The perseverance part is what led Nemed to want to be immortal, while the self sacrifice led him to give up his godhood. Basium's interpretation is a bit different. He perseveres in fighting evil, and is willing to give up even his personal ethics to keep on fighting. When Arawn agreed to the compact he could not help but persevere in his crusade against the forces of darkness, and gladly gave up his rank, ara, and immortality in order to do so.
Basium had been asking Arawn for the precept of life to help him fight demons since the middle of the Godswar, and was constantly rejected yet remained loyal until he was told to give up the fight.
I tend to think that Sucellus began his transformation to the precept of life when he sacrificed his life in an attempt to stop Mulcarn. He then loyally served Arawn in the underworld, helping him care for the flood of souls from the fire rain and long winter, without needing to be asked. He asked Arawn to resurrect him often, but the God of Life and Death would not. He did not really care about the power itself but wanted to live again. This desire eventually evolved into a desire to see nature heal from the damage of the winter, for which he would give up anything. Arawn still refused to act, and Sucellus cane to think that a god cannot serve two precepts properly. Once he was willing to sacrifice his precept his very nature, he was ready to become an embodiment on life instead of nature. Arawn clung to his insistence on non-interference but sacrificed the sphere of life to allow Sucellus to sacrifice the sphere of nature to become the God of Life and return to Erebus to heal it. Cernunnos was then of course granted the sphere of Nature.
I tend to think that Basium has always liked Cernunnos a lot, but he certainly never cared for "The God of Daffodils." The Great Horned One was the best warrior among the archangels, the only one ever to dare to fight Agares in his own vault and the only one to ever land a blow against the King of Hope, but Sucellus has always held him back. I'm sure he had no problem with Cernunnos becoming a god, but he would think Sucellus should be left with no precept as punishment for his failure. Basium was outraged that his creator spent ages refusing to give the sphere of life to him to help rid the world of evil yet after a mere ~400 years gave in to a god "whose only military accomplishment of any note was failing where a flesh puppet was able to succeed."
Edit: long posts are too easy to ninja
Nemed gave his precept of life to Arawn just before he became human. He was still dominated by this precept when he convinced the gods that mankind should be immortal, which would cause him much suffering. Arawn had been strongly opposed to it, arguing that The One intended nothing in Creation to last forever, but he gave in to the majority after Mammon decided that Gabella should be immortal so she would not have to fear death (which he feared), and since he believed that it wouldn't matter as The One would soon destroy them all. Arawn did not fight this, as he was dominated by the precept that stands for resignation.
Archangels were the first angels each god made. Each god made one archangel near the beginnign of the age of Dragons, with two exceptions (three is you count Nemed, but he was not a god anymore so he doesn't count).
Agares never created any angels, but only corrupted them. His archangel, Hyborem, is a corrupted copy of Cernunnos, Sucellus's archangel. Cernunnos was at the time the most powerful archangel (although pehaps weakened by having lost Sucellus's ara at the time he invaded Agares' hell), and would later go on to be the weakest god.
As Arawn controlled two precepts, he made two Archangels, often called "The Twins." These are of course Basium, Archangel of Life, and his sister Gyra, Archangel of Death. Gyra was responsible for guarding the passageways souls used to reach the Netherworld from Erebus (The Wells of Creation), while Basium guarded those used to come back (which Arawn pretty much always left locked anyway, but Sucellus opened them again).
Gyra is pretty much the only one trying to fight Laroth. Arawn won't tell his angels to help because he doesn't believe this mortal could be a threat, plus he likely may just not care anymore care anymore. Losing the precept of life may have made him even more resigned to fate than the was before. She was also the only one to try to fight Tebryn originally, but she failed. It is not clear whether she was imprisoned inside Tebryn's rune or simply stopped from leaving the netherworld through that passageway.
I assume that Arawn did not do much to limit Basium during the Godswar. The God of Death was personally one of the least involved gods. He was also surprisingly busy, as he had opened his vault to mortal souls and after a very slow trickle at first he wasn't really prepared for the influx caused by the height of the war. Gyra was likely pretty busy, but Basium did not have so much to do so he was free to wage war on demons on his own.
The essence of like is perseverance coupled with a willingness to sacrifice for the greater good. It also involves healing to a greater degree than any other sphere can. The perseverance part is what led Nemed to want to be immortal, while the self sacrifice led him to give up his godhood. Basium's interpretation is a bit different. He perseveres in fighting evil, and is willing to give up even his personal ethics to keep on fighting. When Arawn agreed to the compact he could not help but persevere in his crusade against the forces of darkness, and gladly gave up his rank, ara, and immortality in order to do so.
Basium had been asking Arawn for the precept of life to help him fight demons since the middle of the Godswar, and was constantly rejected yet remained loyal until he was told to give up the fight.
I tend to think that Sucellus began his transformation to the precept of life when he sacrificed his life in an attempt to stop Mulcarn. He then loyally served Arawn in the underworld, helping him care for the flood of souls from the fire rain and long winter, without needing to be asked. He asked Arawn to resurrect him often, but the God of Life and Death would not. He did not really care about the power itself but wanted to live again. This desire eventually evolved into a desire to see nature heal from the damage of the winter, for which he would give up anything. Arawn still refused to act, and Sucellus cane to think that a god cannot serve two precepts properly. Once he was willing to sacrifice his precept his very nature, he was ready to become an embodiment on life instead of nature. Arawn clung to his insistence on non-interference but sacrificed the sphere of life to allow Sucellus to sacrifice the sphere of nature to become the God of Life and return to Erebus to heal it. Cernunnos was then of course granted the sphere of Nature.
I tend to think that Basium has always liked Cernunnos a lot, but he certainly never cared for "The God of Daffodils." The Great Horned One was the best warrior among the archangels, the only one ever to dare to fight Agares in his own vault and the only one to ever land a blow against the King of Hope, but Sucellus has always held him back. I'm sure he had no problem with Cernunnos becoming a god, but he would think Sucellus should be left with no precept as punishment for his failure. Basium was outraged that his creator spent ages refusing to give the sphere of life to him to help rid the world of evil yet after a mere ~400 years gave in to a god "whose only military accomplishment of any note was failing where a flesh puppet was able to succeed."
Edit: long posts are too easy to ninja
Heretic
Chieftain
I say he should get upgrade of weapon class, which make him more like an hero.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Hyborem (and Cernunnos) were not supposed to have wings in the lore originally, but I think they were retconned in so they didn't have to make new graphics rather than using Bloodthirster.
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