Spitting science in the face

[carlosMM]

Bush - who else?

http://www.gmx.net/de/themen/beruf/bildung/schule/1229716,cc=000000055900012297161k4PS5.html


sorry, German only. They say that 'Us news agencies report' - but my google searches only brought me 10.000 links to death in Iraq....

Content: Bush advocates teaching 'Intelligent Design' as a scientific alternative to evolution!

He advocates teaching fairy tales in school - as 'alternatives'!
How can a country be so blind to elect someone like this, and how can the educated US public let him get away with this - where is the public outcry of rage of all those who have ever studied the subject? Of those who work in science and - as opposed to preachers and those who have merely 'read the bible' - know what ID and evolution mean?

lately, all *I* hear from the US is religious indoctrination


Maybe someone can email 'Don't-know-much-about-science'-ChristianGeorgie the link to perfection's evo thread?

 

[Masquerouge]

Yeah, what I find really amazing is that the US is currently one of the most advanced scientifical nation on the planet, and yet it's the only country that thinks about teaching Creationism in schools...

I think the real danger to that is that only the people able to afford an university education (or willing to work hard enough to get a scholarship) will actually receive a proper one.

And I remember reading somewhere that actually the top scientists were withdrawing from the fight. That's sad, but I can understand : scientists are more often than not not trained to PR and media fighting the way evangelical leaders are, and when such debates occur, the most motivated people are the evangelicals because the evolutionnists are thinking, "surely nobody can believe something so stupid, no need to show our support", resulting in audiencs completely sworn to Creationnism, and making it difficult for the poor uncharismatic scientist on stage...

 

[Gothmog]

Yeah, I saw this and cringed.

I read the text and the actual quote from Shrub is:
"You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

Hard to argue with that, the religious right has made strides in how the couch the topic.

Here's a link in english: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/03/MNGFOE1VHN1.DTL&feed=rss.news

and a quote from his science advisor

Marburger said in a telephone interview that "evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology" and "intelligent design is not a scientific concept." Marburger also said that Bush's remarks should be interpreted to mean that the president believes that intelligent design should be discussed as part of the "social context" in science classes.

Sneaky as hell.

Discuss science in science class, and social context in sociology. Creationism (aka intelligent design) in religious studies.

 

[IglooDame]

http://politics.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050802/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_intelligent_design

WASHINGTON -
President Bush said Monday he believes schools should discuss "intelligent design" alongside evolution when teaching students about the creation of life.

During a round-table interview with reporters from five Texas newspapers, Bush declined to go into detail on his personal views of the origin of life. But he said students should learn about both theories, Knight Ridder Newspapers reported.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

The theory of intelligent design says life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, implying that a higher power must have had a hand in creation.

Christian conservatives — a substantial part of Bush's voting base — have been pushing for the teaching of intelligent design in public schools. Scientists have rejected the theory as an attempt to force religion into science education.

 

[ybbor]

Yeah, what I find really amazing is that the US is currently one of the most advanced scientifical nation on the planet, and yet it's the only country that thinks about teaching Creationism in schools

I might call that a correlation rather than irony

 

[Masquerouge]

You've got to give credit to the evangelical PRs. Intelligent design ? That's good, implying that evo is stupid.

But evolutionnists in the US should really be ready to get up and fight. The phase where you can sit at home and scorn at those loony creationnists because no one will believe them is obviously over.

 

[blackheart]

I might call that a correlation rather than irony

Hardly! Would you really really want public schools teaching your children about how the world was started? The same schools that are now teaching that Germany declared war on America in WW2 first? . Parents should teach religion and creationism themselves, instead of leaving it to an outside party.

 

[Stapel]

The Dutch secretary of (un)education, mrs. Maria Verhoeven, has also stated the option of teaching kids about 'Intelligent Design' (the English phrase was used, there is not Dutch for this craphola, just as we lack a word for creation).

The basis of this is that human DNA, when written down in books sizing 100 meters of bookshelves or so, can't be a coincedence.

It's just plain childish to even think for one second the possible intelligent designer of these 100 meters of bookshelves can be concidence.
If there is an intelligent designer of life, this entity is more complex than life....


I'm only inches away from leaving my ultra liberal principles.
Maybe we should stop the Freedom of religion? Just make a world wide constitution that tells it is ok to believe in whatever fairy tale, but consequently be banned form any government function?

Or in a milder form: Get banned from politics when you mix your religious views in local, national, or international parliaments?

 

[farting bob]

Its a thinly disguised bible story at best. "things are really complicated, so they must have been made by god". Rediculous, they should be ashamed at trying to push this on children at school. In a church, fine, but not in schools. In the article they say darwinism is a theory and that thy should also teach other theories as well. The difference is that there is ample evidence proving evolution as we know it is correct. What evidence is there that a god has designed all living things?
Where's curt? He'll enjoy this.

 

[joycem10]

I went to a Catholic grade school where I was taught creationism and nothing else. Shockingly enough, I was able to make a cogent decision that evolution is likely valid on my own.

Either that or we're all decended from the lost 13th tribe of Kobol.

Hardly! Would you really really want public schools teaching your children about how the world was started? The same schools that are now teaching that Germany declared war on America in WW2 first? . Parents should teach religion and creationism themselves, instead of leaving it to an outside party.

I hope thats meant to be ironic because Germany did declare war on the US first in WWII.

http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/germwar.html

edited for sp

 

[pboily]

I went to a catholic High School and I never once heard about creationism or intelligent design. We were taught evolution (as much as it can be taught in high school) as a mostly fitting theory (a few holes here and there, but nothing major... the details are maybe not completely in place yet, but the basic ideas withstand attempts at falsification)...

Here is what I don't understand: if we were to teach science in a religion class, it would never fly. Why insist on teaching religion in a science class?

 

[farting bob]

Here is what I don't understand: if we were to teach science in a religion class, it would never fly. Why insist on teaching religion in a science class?

Good point, why not teach this rubbish in religion lessons, rather than making out they are scientif facts?
Knowing bush, he probably thinks that he is a descendant of this 'designer', and has been given a holy quest to screw over the education system with it.

 

[Oruc]

i dont have a problem with this

 

[newfangle]

Normally I wouldn't care since I'm completely indifferent to US politics.

However, after spending my entire damn summer under a research grant for evolutionary biology, this is just silliness!

 

[ComradeDavo]

It is a bad move in my eyes, rather than teach children the facts the Christian Fundamentalists would rather indoctrinate them.

 

[bathsheba666]

Ermmm, since the very existence of Bush shows that evolution is flawed, why are we amazed by this...

 

[Mr. Blonde]

It´s a kind of paradox:
The moment someone is dumb enough to believe intelligent design it is disproved. (Otherwise it would mean that god directs evolution towards stupidity )

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Dutch secretary of (un)education, mrs. Maria Verhoeven, has also stated the option of teaching kids about 'Intelligent Design' (the English phrase was used, there is not Dutch for this craphola, just as we lack a word for creation).

You lack a word for "creation"? I'm sorry, but I find that seriously hard to believe indeed. How can the language of a people with a very long Christian history lack that?

(As for the phrase "intelligent design", it's perfectly good Swedish already, so there's no need for translation. Not that we've got alot of IDiots here.)

 

[Warman17]

Yeah, what I find really amazing is that the US is currently one of the most advanced scientifical nation on the planet, and yet it's the only country that thinks about teaching Creationism in schools...

Maybe theres a connection....or maybe because half the country doesn't know better

 

[IglooDame]

(As for the phrase "intelligent design", it's perfectly good Swedish already, so there's no need for translation. Not that we've got alot of IDiots here.)

Every time this topic comes up I get the willies, too many people using the same abbreviation for intelligent design and my screename...