*Spoiler1* Gotm20-Spain-Continent Map+Middle Ages

[samildanach]

Originally posted by DaveMcW

Would you like to start a thread in the Strategy Forum or the Articles Forum about it?

I agree I think that the RCP model would make a fine strategy article, dare I say war academy ? However I hope that Davidesj remembers to reference Alexman when he writes it as the RCP model wouldnt be here without his hard work on the corruption calculations especially with regard to the city ranking variable which the RCP model exploits.

Originally posted by Davidesj

OK, I'll do that when I have a chance. I was going to wait until this GOTM is over, so that I could use examples from this game, but there's no good reason not to start a thread about it sooner than that

There are a couple of good reasons why you should not put the RCP model in the public domain until GoTM 20 is over. Firstly having actually used RCP in a couple of games now I know how powerful it is and I feel that it would give players that have as yet not started GoTM 20 an unfair edge over those who have already submitted and may have decided to use it had they known about it.
Secondly there is only one place up till now where one can learn about RCP and that's this thread. Players who submit games featuring RCP....well there would be something going on there.
I suggest that you show some discretion on this matter and delay publishing the RCP model.

 

[Txurce]

I think DDJ made reference to Alexman in his post. And I see nothing unfair about someone reading a theoretical article on RCP, then starting GOTM20. That's no more unfair than players who wait for the previous month's QSC results to be thoroughly discussed (obviously in search of useful insights) before beginning the new game.

 

[samildanach]

There are certain posts on the QSC thread that have been wisely deleted by Cracker. Rest assured if someone else had come up with the RCP model and then chosen to go public with it DDJ would be up in arms about it in the event that he had already submitted. One cant just leave everything up to Cracker as members of a community we have to take some level of personal responsibility about what is playing fair by our fellow competitors.
I agree he has placed a link to Alexmans thread I guess I am just irritated at what I percieve as his lack community spirit.

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
I just ran some test games myself to confirm this works. Great discovery!

So Dave, how are you going to combine the RCP and palace jump? I guess the initial ring would have to be around the planned forbidden palace city near the original palace? The 2nd ring would have to be around the city to jump the palace to. That's going to take some planning .

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by samildanach
There are certain posts on the QSC thread that have been wisely deleted by Cracker. Rest assured if someone else had come up with the RCP model and then chosen to go public with it DDJ would be up in arms about it in the event that he had already submitted. One cant just leave everything up to Cracker as members of a community we have to take some level of personal responsibility about what is playing fair by our fellow competitors.
I agree he has placed a link to Alexmans thread I guess I am just irritated at what I percieve as his lack community spirit.

I'm confused, you said you have used RCP (I don't even know what is is yet) in a couple of games in your previous post. Did you use it when you played Gotm 20 or did you use it after you submitted your game for Gotm 20?

 

[Renata]

There are lots of things to give one player an advantage over another in the GOTM, including a whole pile of gray areas like ICS, ROP abuse, resource denials, palace jumps and probably lots of other things. I would put RCP somewhere in that category myself; i.e. exploitation of game mechanics to sidestep the restrictions intentionally built into the game by its designers. RCP would fall into the same category for me, and as such, I won't use it.

That said, I see no particular reason to keep this secret just so that one or two extra people don't get a boost up the standings. This game is always going to have some people using techniques that others won't touch/ haven't learned yet; this is just another variation on the same thing, IMO, and not worth worrying about.

Renata

 

[cracker]

I would recommend that the right approach for Daviddesj to follow would be to stop fostering further discussion of RCP at this point in time and to wait until about the 25th of the month to open that discussion in the Strategy forum with a well though out general discussion adn perhaps some example maps and data that do not use Gotm20 as an example.

Timing here would address the sensitive behavior issues by making sure it was well after the closing of the Csc submit date on the 20th plus being late enough in the month to be of little avail to players in Gotm20. It would also make the concepts eaually available to all players in Gotm21 if they found it necessary or useful.

I also think we may have had enough discussion of this issue as a generic strategy concept and it may be distracting from the main purpose of this discussion which is the general issues of Gotm20 opening move sequences. I will seriously consider splitting the discussion off into a separate thread if it continues at this time.

This topic really does deserve it's own discussion thread the only really issue is how to implement it with responsible timing. In the past, many players have just posted great info that comes out of the GOTMS by timing the anouncements for when they feel it would be right for most of the members of the community.

We also want to be supportive and recognise these great discoveries/accomplishments by recognizing them with frontpage news stories but that has to be limited to fit the spoiler and game impact calendar in an attempt to keep things fair for as many players as possible.

Between now and the 25th of June, Daviddesj could produce a very killer foundation for a stratagy article post.

 

[samildanach]

Svar I didn't use RCP on GoTM 20. I will be using it on future GOTMs. If I remember correctly I submitted GotM 20 on June 4th.
I have since DDJ announced RCP in this thread used it in two private SP games. I am currently using it in an Always War game at monarch-my personal opinion is that in using RCP, AW has never been so easy.
Renata while RCP exploits the city ranking number variable I do not think that it is an exploit. Many of the elite players on this board ( including you Renata ) may have come close to implementing RCP in their games purely because of their vast experience in developing their empires and making them as efficient as possible while not understanding the mechanics of RCP. I think it will be hard for players not to use RCP although I admire your stand.
Sorry Cracker this will be my last word on RCP

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by samildanach
Renata while RCP exploits the city ranking number variable I do not think that it is an exploit.

*shrug* We'll just have to agree to disagree. I do agree it's quite an amazing discovery, though, and I don't want to take anything away from Alexman or Daviddes by saying I won't use it.

Not that anyone probably cares what one good-but-not-spectacular player thinks about it, anyway.

Renata

 

[ltcoljt]

.

 

[Sirp]

I think it's something that Firaxis should have fixed by simply making it that if two cities are the same distance away from the capital, the first city in the database (i.e. the city that was founded first), gets the lower corruption, and the other city gets the higher corruption. (In fact that's how I assumed it worked, I hadn't read the nitty-gritty of alexman's article)

The main problem I have with it is that for me, it simply makes the game less interesting to have to concentrate on founding cities equi-distant from the capital, instead of focussing on the normal city-placement considerations one would expect, like terrain and proximity to resources and rival civilizations.

I haven't tried it, but I would imagine it would be a fairly powerful strategy, since you could have city five or six being only as corrupt as city two.

-Sirp.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I agree with cracker that getting carried away with RCP discussion here would take away from the intended purpose of this thread. I suggest everyone save up their insights on the subject until I start an appropriate thread in the strategy forum, as cracker has suggested. (My only problem is that I'm on vacation now, and won't have much time this month to even finish GOTM20, much less set up an additional sample game to illustrate the technique. But I'll see what I can do. It sounds like once I do start a thread, other people who've posted here will be able to quickly add their own examples.)

I certainly take samildanach's point about giving adequate credit to alexman for his great research on corruption, and I'll be sure to do that. Without his basic work to determine that corruption is based in part on the number of closer cities, I never would have thought to ask the question of what happens if several cities are placed at exactly the same distance, or to try it. But I think it's a little unfair, or premature, to accuse me of not being "community minded". I also don't particularly wish any advantage for myself from this discovery, and wouldn't be upset if other people use it more effectively than I do. I certainly don't think it's going to be enough to make me into the #1 GOTM player.

Finally, I agree in part with Sirp: I think perhaps it would have been better if Firaxis had avoided rewarding the RCP technique (my solution would have been to count all the closer cities toward corruption, plus 1/2 of the number of cities at the exact same distance). On the other hand, I don't really find that using the technique makes the game less interesting. There are still a whole lot of interesting questions around where to build the rings, whether to build all of the spots in the rings or leave some empty, whether to add some cities that don't fit the ring model, how to make the strategy mesh with the forbidden palace and/or palace jump, building cities outside the rings for strategic placement reasons, etc., etc. So far, it's given me more to think about, not less. I know I personally look forward to seeing other people use aspects of RCP effectively in future GOTMs, and still show off their talents by the choices they make in doing so.

Anyway, the corruption formulas are what they are, and I assume the community will adjust to the discovery, as it has lots of others.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Something really weird is going on in the forum (since the upgrade?). My post appears before cracker's and Sirp's posts, that I responded to! They are dated Jun 17, but where I am it's still Jun 16!

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by samildanach
Svar I didn't use RCP on GoTM 20. I will be using it on future GOTMs. If I remember correctly I submitted GotM 20 on June 4th.
I have since DDJ announced RCP in this thread used it in two private SP games. I am currently using it in an Always War game at monarch-my personal opinion is that in using RCP, AW has never been so easy.

Thats what I figured but wasn't sure. Where do I find details of this strategy? I would like to set up a test game to test it. For years I have been building cities in patterns that feature rows 4 tiles apart and the cities 5 tiles apart down the rows. That way each tile is covered by a city and there is only 1 overlaped tile per city if the pattern is consistant. I don't have a clue how effective it is corruption wise that is why I want to test it.

I propose to generate a random map and modify it to have an Australia like small continent for the test. I'll put all the resource and luxery tiles in the capital area and all the rest of the continent will be bonus grassland with cattle and parallel rivers 2 tiles apart. It will look weird but will give me an effective testbed for various city patterns that grows very fast.

I'll leave 2 other continents unchanged for the most part and set 8 starting positions. As I was typing this I just realized that I already have a Civ 3 (I play PTW now) world like this I just need to modify the small continent.

That was a very long post just to find the details of RCP.

PS. That Civ3 world has now been modified. I designated the starting position as player number 1 but the first time I started I got another starting position. Does anyone know how to gaurantee you always start in the same position?

Sorry Cracker I just now realized that you are trying to delay this discussion.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Originally posted by Sirp

...
The main problem I have with it is that for me, it simply makes the game less interesting to have to concentrate on founding cities equi-distant from the capital, instead of focussing on the normal city-placement considerations one would expect, like terrain and proximity to resources and rival civilizations.
...

The way I play it (and have done for quite a while) is to approximate the rings with regard to local resources terrain. Kind of a half way house - I end up with some strange looking "rings", some of them are regular cities, others are just towns (and can't get bigger).

I first suspected something fishy was going on when I noticed that AI cities tended to occur in horizontal or vertical lines. Coincidence? Maybe. It just happened so often that I ended up using a similar strategy without working out the hard details. I was just happier my production was a bit better than before.

 

[jeffelammar]

Edit 1.21 - Open
Another late QSC finish. Hope I get to finish the GOTM too.

Here is my basic timeline.


4000 BC -
Look around. After all the discussion I am sure that is wheat to the south and east. I will move east onto the floodplain to hopefully get better coastal cities when I found them.
Sure enough it is wheat. Send my worker directly there.

3950 BC -
Found Madrid. Worker arrives on wheat.
Madrid produces warrior. Set research Writing at [8.2.0]

3900 BC - Worker starts irrigation of Flood Plain with Wheat.

3700 BC - Madrid grows to Pop 2. Worker 1 starts road. Taxes [8.1.1]

3600 BC - Madrid produces Warrior. Start another. Warrior 1 moves north
I chose to send him north because I wanted to scout the area
that didn't contain jungle all over the place.

3550 BC - Worker 1 to BG ne of Madrid. Warrior 1 continues north.

3500 BC - Madrid grows to Pop 3. Taxes to [6.1.3]
Madrid citizens work FP+w, BG, GL. (must keep +5 food)
Worker 1 starts mine. Warrior sees mountain east, heads for it.

3450 BC - Madrid Expands culturally. Start using plains with cattle
instead of Regular Grassland.

3400 BC - Second Warrior in Madrid. Start Settler.
Warrior 2 goes south. (2 south because of road)

3350 BC - Warrrior 2 turns east to skirt north edge of jungle.

3300 BC - Madrid grows to Pop 4. Taxes to [5.1.4]

3200 BC - Worker 1 starts road on BG.

3100 BC - Madrid grows to 5, produces Settler (Pop 3), Start another.
Settler goto (s,s,se). Taxes [6.1.3]

3050 BC - Worker 1 moves north across river to Grassland.

3000 BC - Found Barcelona (start worker).
Worker 1 starts road on Grassland.
Warrior 2 meets French Settler (escorted by warrior)
Joan is Polite (153 Gold and 2 cities (plut the settler))
She has Bronze Working, Masonry, Pottery and Warrior Code.
She does not have the Wheel.
Trade The Wheel and 8 gold to Joan for Pottery.

2900 BC - Madrid grows to Pop 4. (Work Plain to get settler next turn)
Taxes [4.1.5]

2850 BC - Settler in Madrid. Start a granary. Taxes [8.1.1]
Worker 1 to Grassland + cattle.
Settler goes to ne, n, n.

2800 BC - Worker 1 irrigates cattle grassland.

2750 BC - Found Seville (build warrior). Taxes to [6.1.3]
Barcelona grows to Pop 2.

2670 BC - Barcelona produces Worker (2). Start another.
Worker2 moves to FP+wheat.

2630 BC - Worker 2 irrigates FP+wheat.

2550 BC - Seville produces Warrior(3). Start Granary.
Warrior 3 moves to Madrid.

2510 BC - Worker 1 to Plains + cattle.

2470 BC - Worker 2 road on FP+w. Worker 1 irrigate Plains + cattle.

2430 BC - ARRGH - Disease strikes Madrid. I knew this could happen, but
I was hoping not.
Warrior 1 has moved east and meets a Celtic Warrior.
Brennus is Polite (29 Gold, Bronze, Mason, Warrior Code)
Woo woo he doesn't have Wheel.
Trade Wheel + 24 gold for Masonry.

2390 BC - Barcelona produces Worker(3). Start Settler.
Worker3 moves north.
Meet Ottomans
Annoyed, 108 Gold, Bronze, WC, Myst, 4 cities.
Buy worker for 115 Gold.
Slave s, w to prep next city (coastal to get incense)
After turn the Celts order my arrior out of their territory.
I say I will comply.

2350 BC - Meet Polite Shaka (240g, 8 cities!!!, BW, WC, and Myst.
Worker 2 moves to Dye south of Barcelona.
Worker 3 starts a road.
Slave starts a road.
Switch Seville to Pyramids. (don't remember why I thought this
was a good idea, but it is in the notes)

2310 BC - Madrid builds a Granary. Start a warrior. Taxes [1.1.8]
I need to get Madrid to pop 5. Then will be 4 turn settlers.
Worker 1 starts road on Plains + cattle.
Worker 2 starts road on dyes.
Warrior 3 leaves Madrid to do MP in Seville.
Meet Polite Ghandi. (13g, Bronze, Warrior, Writing, Myst)

2270 BC - Warrior 3 arrives in Seville. Taxes to [6.1.3]
Meet Cautious Elizabeth. Has 3 cities, Bronze and Warrior Code.
Trade Masonry to Lizzie for Bronze Working and 2 gold.

2190 BC - Worker 1 moves to BG nw of Seville.
Worker 3 moves to Incense.

2150 BC - Discover Writing, Start Literature.
Worker 1 starts mine.
Worker 3 starts road.

2110 BC - Slave Irrigates FP.
Trade Writing + 62 Gold to France for Iron Working + Mysticism.
Trade Mysticism to England for Warrior Code + 10 Gold.
Bacelona uses all FPs to max growth. Seville gets an entertainer.


2030 BC - Madrid builds Settler, Start another (Yeah 4 turn factory)
Settler goes s, w, w to coast.

1950 BC - Found Toledo (Colossus) - Luxuries allow taxes to go to [8.1.1]

1910 BC - Taxes [7.1.2] - Must get more luxuries.

1870 BC - Settler in Madrid - Start another.
Send Settler to Barcelona + 1e, 2s.

1790 BC - Slave heads up north.
Worker 1 moves to horses by Seville.
Taxes [6.1.3]

1750 BC - Seville builds Granary (switched it sometime) - Start Worker.
Warrior2 Pillages some Zulu roads. (Between culture boundaries)

1725 BC - Madrid Produces Settler - Another started.
Send Settler north. Will pick exact target next turn.
Found Santiago 3se, 1s of Barcelona? (produce warrior)

1700 BC - Barcelona produces Settler, Start a worker.
Send Settler e, se e.
Seville builds Worker(4). Start Settler.
Worker 4 Southeast to BG.
Taxes [8.1.1]

1675 BC - Worker 3 sw to Plains. Worker 4 build mine.
Found Mucia on Horses. (Start Warrior)
Taxes [7.1.2]

1650 BC - Worker 2 to Wheat west of Santiago.
Worker 3 irrigates.
Worker 1 builds road on BG near Seville.
Slave to BG.
Found Valencia on hills east of the fish on west coast.(warrior)

1625 BC - Madrid Settler - keep on going with the settlers
Barcelona Worker(5) - start barracks.
Worker 5 west to FP.
Worker 2 irrigates Grassland + wheat.
Slave starts Road.

1600 BC - In between turns, France contacted me about maps. Time for
some frenzied trading.
Buy Joan's World Map for my World Map + 140 Gold
Trade World Map to Ottomans for World Map +44 Gold
Trade World Map to Ghandi for World Map + 26 Gold.
Trade World Map, 2gpt, 115g to Shaka for MapMaking + World Map
Trade World Map to Brennus for World Map + 1 Gold
Sell World Map To Joan for 42 Gold.
Sell World Map to Osam for 6 gold
Sell World Map to Ghandi for 5 gold.
I didn't do as well as I would have liked, but I made sure the AI couldn't do more massive trading either.
Post Turn : Ottomans build Pyramids.
Post Turn : Zulu build Oracle.

1550 BC - Seville builds Settler - Start another.
Worker 3 starts a road on plains.
Found Cuidad de la Luna on Grasslands Between Iron and Incense.
Produce warrior. (Name should have had Spanish for song in it too)

1525 BC - Madrid builds a Settler. Starts another
Worker 1 builds a road.
Worker 2 starts a road on GL + wheat.
Worker 4 Builds a road.
Found Zaragosa 3 north of Seville. (start worker)

1500 BC - Santiago builds Warrior. Start Worker.

1475 BC - Slave starts Mine.

1450 BC - Found Pamplona 3 east of Madrid. (build worker)

1425 BC - Madrid builds Settler - Another.
Seville builds Settler - Chariot.
Toledo Builds Barracks - Chariot.
Mucia builds Warrior - Worker.
Cuidad de la Luna builds Warrior - Barracks.
1 Settler to SE Jungle to secure area.
2 Settler to north to claim furs.
Worker 2 mines BG next to Santiago
Worker 1 moves to furs.

1400 BC - Valencia builds Warrior. Start Barracks.
Worker 4 road.
Worker 1 road on furs, City will be founded by time done.

1375 BC - Barcelona builds Barracks. Start chariot.
Worker3 to FP sw of Madrid.

1350 BC - Settler founds Aldea de Ribanna east of Furs.
Worker 3 builds road.
Worker 5 mines.
Taxes [7.1.2]

1325 BC - Madrid builds Settler. Another started.
Barcelona builds Chariot, start Settler.
Sevile builds Chariot, start settler.
Santiago builds Worker. Start Warrior.
Worker 7 to east.

1300 BC - Toledo chariot, start another
Mucea worker, start barracks.

1275 BC - Zaragosa Worker - Start Settler
Worker 8 to Wheat to irrigate
Worker 2 builds road.

1250 BC - Worker 7 builds road.
Worker 3 road.
Worker 1 2 east. (East of Aldea de Ribannah)

Zulu complete Great Wall.
1225 BC - Settler in Madrid. Start another.
Found Casa del Bamrapido west of Ivory. (spearman)

1200 BC - Seville Builds Settler, start Palace
Pamplona builds Worker, start Barracks

1175 BC - Toledo builds Chariot, start another.

1150 BC - Barcelona builds Settler, start ??? (oops didn't write it)
Found Vitoria between the cattle and fish on east coast.

1125 BC - Madrid builds Settler. Start Another
Santiago builds Warrior start worker.

1100 BC - Barcelona Produces Warrior, start another.
The first one was a mistake, but I decided to go with it
so I could use a combo Chariot/Warrior upgrade blitz on France.
Aldea de Ribannah builds Warrior, start Worker
Found Santander (7 ne of madrid, produce worker)

1075 BC - Shaka demands 45 Gold + World Map. I give it.

1050 BC - French build Colossus.
Barcelona builds Warrior, another
Toledo builds Chariot, another

1025 BC - Madrid builds Settler, another. (almost done expanding)
Found Asturias (ne of game, s of fish on north coast)

1000 BC - No special moves

I have
15 cities
3 settlers
9 workers
1 slave
12 warriors (8 reg, 2 vet)
5 chariots (4 vet, 1 reg)
2 granaries
3 barracks
Contact with 6 rivals.
Embassy with Ottomans.

After reading others, I am not to happy, I should have done better.
I am 1 turn from Literature (in 975).
My intent is to get several more chariots and warriors. Hook up iron and
do my upgrade and attack Joan. I should be able to use Literature to get
Horseback riding from Lizzie.

After QSC I went ahead with my plan. I declared war soon there after. After a long war I left France with one city and took the rest of Joan's land. (The one city is north of me so my Capitol is much closer to the captured cities)

Joan enlisted Lizzie and Osam to her side, and I got India to help me.
I managed to get a lot of slaves from settlers that they sent in during the war.
In 510 BC I made peace with Osam for Philosophy and 6 gold.
In 490 BC I made peace with England. I paid 110 gold and got Mathematics.
In 270 BC
Get Leader (finally)
Trade WMap + 225 g to Celts for Code of Laws.
Trade World Map + 94 gold to Ghandi for Polytheism
Peace with France for Construction, Currency, Republic and Monarchy.
I will use the leader to rush my FP in Orleans.
In 270 I start a revolution and switch Seville to Hanging Gardens (waste 15 or so shields).
This means I get Hanging Gardens, Enter Republic and trigger my Golden Age all on next turn.
This should allow me to quickly catch the AI in the tech arena.

 

[Ambiorix]

v1.14f Euro.

Small question for the folks who settled at the starting spot : did anybody else follow the same sequence with the worker ? I found this a pretty fast way to set up my settler factory.
Sequence was :
worker south - irrigate - east - irrigate wheat - road - go west - go southwest - hook up incense - go back into Madrid - go north - cut forest (just in time to deliver the 10 last shieds for our granary) - road - go northeast - irrigate cattle - road.
Production was warrior-settler-granary-settler-settler....

I was just wondering what other people did with the worker; can't wait until the QSC's are published next month.

 

[Vici]

CivIII V1.29 Open.

Moved worker south and did not move settler.
Started writing at min science.

My exploring warrious did not move in the right direction to get early contacts. I first met France in 1910BC. England in 1600BC, Keltoi in 1575BC. I bought contact with Zulu from Keltoi for Writing. I bought contact with India and Ottomans for gold.

I buy pottery from France at first opportunity and start granary in Madrid. I rushed granary in Madrid when I could do it at a cost of 1 citizen. I turn Madrid into a four-turn settler factory. I didn't produce settlers anywhere else but I probably should have.

When I bought contact with Zulu he has only three cities. He must have been at war and come off the worst out of it.

France and Ottomans were the tech leaders.

In 1325BC I bought Code of Laws from France and traded it around.
I get Map Making from England, World map and Warrior code from Keltoi.
I Get Mysticism and Masonry from Ottomans.
I get Iron working, Maths, and Horseback Riding from Zulu.

In 1275BC I start forbidden palace in Barcelona as prebuild for Great Library.
(I missed the library by 7 turns, built forbidden palace with a loss of shields, and abandoned Madrid after adding workers to my new designated capital).

In 1000BC I got literature. In my QSC submission I did not trade it, my thinking being that the lighthouse should be completed somewhere soon. If it was completed before everyone else learned literature I would get to complete the great library.
After I submitted, and spent some time thinking about it, I decided to trade literature. I get Polytheism, construction, world maps and some gold. I don't know how much this will affect the QSC score.

 

[forged]

PTW 1.21, Conquest (sorry, don't have the image handy)

My qsc actually qualified my for the thread. I knew the whole continent and got the last tech I needed at 1000 bc. I haven't played further and I have serious doubts that I will have enough time to finish the game.

Before I post my comments and observations, I really have wanted to ask 2 things for a while....

1) Based on where I chose to start out. I came to the conclusion that I had a trade off to make from the get go. I could get 2 warriors, 2 defenders (ignoring the chests), or some combination of them in 8 turns. This would have delayed the growth of the city to 2 until turn 12. As an alternative, I could have just built one of those units in turn 10 and grown to population 2 at the same time. What is really the better thing to do? This puzzled me for a
long time, which is why I really want to ask.

2) This is really aimed at the conquest players, but I would be very grateful if the more experienced players speaking up. To me, based on the extra units exploring, the obvious place to settle was the hill. (IMHO) However, since I was sitting on 2 settlers, I decided that settling one immediately seemed better since you already had one to move around.

My question is, what did you think of your starting options and would it have been better to move both of the settlers? (I know this was discussed in the pregame threads, but I thought it might be nice to revisit this since we now know a lot more of the map.)

Thanks,
Forged

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by forged

1) Based on where I chose to start out. I came to the conclusion that I had a trade off to make from the get go. I could get 2 warriors, 2 defenders (ignoring the chests), or some combination of them in 8 turns. This would have delayed the growth of the city to 2 until turn 12. As an alternative, I could have just built one of those units in turn 10 and grown to population 2 at the same time. What is really the better thing to do?

2) To me, based on the extra units exploring, the obvious place to settle was the hill. (IMHO) However, since I was sitting on 2 settlers, I decided that settling one immediately seemed better since you already had one to move around.

1) My feeling is that food is almost always the top priority at the start, exceptions are rare. It is better to grow first and get shields later. A couple of reasons: a) Growing faster leads to more shields anyway, you get your second (and later third and so on) citizen sooner and these citizens add to the shield output. b) A top priority is to pump settlers. For that you need citizens asap. The settlers will get out there somewhere and build towns which produce shields, you'll get better production soon by focusing on food -> settlers -> more towns than by focusing on production in the start town.

2) Actually has the same answer I'd move one settler to the hills and the other south intending to work the wheat. The hills location is great for food, after expanding and some improvement it will get 5 surplus food per turn by using both cattle. That's a very nice number because it divides into 20 (or 10 if you have a granary) evenly, there's no waste. The second settler would go to take advantage of the other bonus food, the wheat.

Another plus from splitting the settlers this way (one uses both cattle, one the wheat) is that the "primary" town, the one using the cattle and with good production, is safe from floodplain disease. It can be the important settler pump. The secondary town working the wheat is vulnerable to disease but is not as critical and can better afford the occasional hit.

I'd go as described above even before considering the chests. With the chests nothing changes - they add bonus shields and food remains the most important thing to maximize at the start.