Spreading My Religion

[Victoria]

Main Post - To work out the spread mechanism for religion - Updated 24th Oct 2017

I will update This top post with anything new based on the fall patch 2017.
Please feel free to add any help / suggestions or anything identified elsewhere to save my effort.
Currently everything below in black should be considered purely assumptions and will be converted to blue when tested.

Conversion
A city will be converted once more than (or equal to?) 50% of the population is converted.
The conversion of a cities population appears to be based on the accumulation of pressure over time as follows

50 pressure points to convert 1 population of an atheist Population
100 pressure points to convert 1 population of a religious city
200 pressure points to convert 1 population of a holy city

There appears to be modifications around the amount of population and the mix of how many atheists to other religions are present. It may even be that local pressure helps stave off conversion.
How a city decides whether an atheist or religious population target is chosen is unknown
It is assumed both active and passive spread use the same mechanic

Passive Pressure
A city with a majority religion will passively spread that religion to other cities within 10 tiles with the following pressure values

• A city with no holy site = 1 pressure per turn
• A city with a holy site = 2 pressure per turn
• A Holy city (including Jerusalem with suze) = 4 pressure per turn.
• A trade route to a city = 1 pressure per turn (but also feeds 0.5 pressure of their religion back)
• The Scripture Belief increases city pressure by 25% initially and 50% after Printing is discovered.
• A city does not apply pressure on itself.

Active Pressure
Active pressure is once off values applied to cities within 10 tiles
All values below are currently assumed until tested.

• A Missionary applies 200 pressure per charge (and seems to convert Atheists better than religious pops)
• An Apostle applies 220 pressure per charge (and seems to convert religious pops better than atheist pops)
• An Inquisitor removes all foreign religions from your own cities and apply 210 pressure)
• A Guru applies 180 pressure per charge
• A Warrior Monk applies pressure of 150 whenever it defeats an opponent within 10 tiles of a city.
• If a religious unit is defeated within 10 tiles of a city those cities loose 150 pressure.
• An Apostle with the Translator promotion triples its spread strength in foreign cities

Religious Lens
Holy cities show more "pressure rings" than holy sites which show more than normal cities

Cities show the direction of pressure and when it will convert.
This text disappears for the turn when an active conversion takes place.
This text will pulse when 6 turns or below left on conversion (may be higher, needs to test more)
Below my butterfly city will eventually convert to Islam (489 turns away) unless I increase pressure. Note the pressure rings are more for a +4 holy city and less for a normal city

 

[EgonSpengler]

Does Jerusalem apply its bonus even if you're not the suzerain?

 

[Victoria]

Does Jerusalem apply its bonus even if you're not the suzerain?

Jerusalem automatically converts to your religion when you become Suze I believe. It can be quite a tactical RV bomb if you save a few envoys. To me this CS is underrated because it does exert a lot of pressure and the scripture belief can really turn a game around in combo with it... now with a few trade routes you can really start making inroads.
If you are not suze but have the majority there I believe it acts like a normal city... I'll check, its been a while and my mind gets fuzzy.
Its also a good question as to whether it acts like a holy city when someone is trying to convert it when under suze... or whether it cannot be converted.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Yeah, if I'm playing a religion game (even if I'm not going for a Religious Victory) Jerusalem is pretty much "join or die." I won't let someone else be their suzerain, so if can't keep pace with delegates, I'll invade.

 

[Forster]

Does chopping work for religious projects? Does the overrun work for the continuance of the project? I know this isn't the topic, but it is related, so I figured I would ask it here since your finding religion topic is locked.

 

[Victoria]

Does chopping work for religious projects

Sure, it's just another project, you want that better belief, you better believe in chopping.

 

[Forster]

That is nice to know. I really wasn't sure how chopping worked for projects. Thanks.

 

[MrRadar]

Jerusalem automatically converts to your religion when you become Suze I believe. It can be quite a tactical RV bomb if you save a few envoys. To me this CS is underrated because it does exert a lot of pressure and the scripture belief can really turn a game around in combo with it... now with a few trade routes you can really start making inroads.
If you are not suze but have the majority there I believe it acts like a normal city... I'll check, its been a while and my mind gets fuzzy.
Its also a good question as to whether it acts like a holy city when someone is trying to convert it when under suze... or whether it cannot be converted.

Yeah, if I'm playing a religion game (even if I'm not going for a Religious Victory) Jerusalem is pretty much "join or die." I won't let someone else be their suzerain, so if can't keep pace with delegates, I'll invade.

Jerusalem can be of help when it is deep in 'enemy' territory and is surrounded by smallish cities, as they can be converted faster. But if it is somewhere on the outskirts, it's value drops. What makes it even worse, it's Suzerainty seems highly contested. In any case, Jerusalem is unworthy to untie the straps of the sandals of Yerevan, if the latter is present on the map. This baby is your typical madman's superweapon, and with no design flaws. It is the ultimate Deathstar with no stupid ventilation shafts. The 'gg' button. If Jerusalem can be helpful, Yerevan is essential for a RV. Get and hold it at any cost.

With the new religion lens and layer, and Indonesia I discovered religious game, you see I have some trouble with colours, so the previous lens was just leaving me clueless and much confused and reluctant to open it ever again, but the new one with its semi-transparency is just great.

In my emperor game I though I will be buying a few Jongs and monks to wreck some havoc, but things somehow dragged a little, nobody was declaring on me, only offering good trades instead, the Jongs and the monks got old quickly and I decided to try the unknown - the RV. Only then I realised that not only Jerusalem, but also Yerevan was on he map and I finally actually read and understood its bonus description. I vassalised it... and then I had my most-fun game of Civ VI so far.

Send a couple of Debater-apostles first, supported by a guru or two for healing, and an escort of other pre-Yerevan apostles with one charge left for mopping up and general screening. These are the front line troops to get you a beachhead and clear the way. And then under their screen, like Mormon missionaries, follow sweet sweet pairs of Proselytizer and Translator apostles. One such pair basically guarantees conversion of any three cities, so it is better to use them on big ones, the holy ones in particular. Sprinkle some missionaries and additional gurus in between as needed. In some cases a missionary may be enough in place of a Translator. Get another such group going the other direction to speed up things. AI's resistance will be futile

In that game I could not hold onto Jerusalem for long. Pericles, who even had no religion of his own, kept taking it from me. Later, when my religion was already his as well, Jerusalem, upon slipping form my hands into Pericles', just reverted to previous religious setup and acted like a normal city, I guess. I can check the save files when I come home. However, when I got Yerevan by majority of two, it stayed like this until the end. One game is far from this being a trend, ofc, much more will be needed.

Anyway, thinking about RV, it seems a bit 'unfair' that the pressure only depends on a city being religious, having or not a holy site or being a holy city, but its size is being ignored for pressure purposes. So one pop size city exerts the same pressure as 20 pop city, if everything else is the same? And the requirement to only convert a majority of cities in another nation can be questioned as well, because to require a majority of the population, probably including mandatory conversion of the capital, would seem more logical.

 

[Victoria]

A one pop city is for attack, a 10 pop city is for defence.
Typically you will get say 10 pressure a turn... on a 10 pop city that's say 200 turns to convert
And that's ignoring your pressure which counteracts theirs
Pressure is about 50% too weak in this game IMO

 

[blackbeardzoro]

I'm having trouble understanding how the pressure is affecting a given city. For example I can see what religions and from where they are pressuring a given city. What I cant tell is the total pressure each religion is exerting on the city and often the "turns to conversion" counter is not present, even in a city without a majority religion. Also it is perplexing to me that using the normal lens will show for example 1 religion as majority religion but using the religion lens shows 2 or sometimes 3 religions present with the little up arrow underneath sometimes under one religion icon and sometimes under a different icon. Hovering the mouse over top of this bar reveals no further information.

If there is a more detailed description of the interactions I have yet to find it. Google search mostly reveals articles detailing the new religious combat and a new lens which supposedly makes the whole religious pressure/conversion easier to understand.

Some help understanding the religious lens would be appreciated.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Wow, this really explains why my religon starts to take off when I capture enemy cities with a holy site.

I bring an inquisitor to some of them and then the passive spread becomes pretty real!

 

[Victoria]

Wow, this really explains why my religon starts to take off when I capture enemy cities with a holy site.

I bring an inquisitor to some of them and then the passive spread becomes pretty real!

With R&F it seems that converting a holy city early and then holding it so the emergency fails will increase pressure. Ever tried the increased pressure with printing belief? Now it is more tempting.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

Yes, I choose the increased pressure belief often! Since I usually don't get an early religion (often none at all), there are not many Evangelize Beliefs left. This one has been available every time, sometimes on the second Evangelize action as well. It really makes a difference in a densely settled area. I usually pair it with Tithe, an old habit from Civ V.

 

[Turrdy]

i won my first religious vicotry yesterday with Scythia (and i also won the "We are the Champions" achievement, so be sure to chose Zoroastrianism when attempting a religious victory)
i found that religious battle is one of the most effective ways to spread your religion, since it does not cost charges and not only boosts your own but also diminishes the other relgion.
of course you'll need apostels for that (a lot thereof) and enemy religious units. And the right beliefs and policies are also very important:

Beliefs:

• Choral music (for nice culture boost for better/faster policies aka reformed church)
• Pilgrimage (+2 faith for every foreign city with your religion) gives a nice snowball-effect (there were 40+ foreign cities with my religion towards the end of the game...).
• Holy Order for cheaper Apostels and Missionaries
• Fire Temple or Synagoge for most faith gain.

Policy Cards:

• Scripture (Holy site adjacency if you have some nice spots)
• Simultaneum (Double Faith from buildings)
• Religious Orders (+5 strengh in theological combat)
• Wars of Religion (+4 strength when fighting against other religions, also counts for religius units)

Government: Theocracy (+5 strength in theological combat and 15% cheaper apostels/missionaries)

Why Scythia you ask? because: +5 strength against wounded units and heal on kill also counts for religious units.

so all in all i had almost +20 combat bonus for religious units in optimal conditions. and with the +20 promotion for the apostels you can easily kill enemy inquisitors in their own holy sites

And don't forget the religous wonders like Mt. Saint Michele or Hagia Sophia!

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Conquest is perhaps the easist way to spread your religion as you can use inquisitors who are cheap and effective. After you make Peace you could just give the cities back to the other civ but now they follow your religion.

If you want to convert without war, getting an apostle with the Proselytizer promotion will help alot as it will basically act like an inquisitor. Use one charge on each city you want to convert and then finish it with missionaries.

 

[Underseer]

I've noticed that in discussions about religion in Civ 6, hardly anyone mentions city placement.

In earlier versions of Civ, I spent a lot of time and effort in city placement near border regions to other civs in order to maximize religious pressure at the border where it does the most good. Mainly, it boiled down to cramming as many cities as possible within 10 tiles of the bordering cities of bordering civs.

Has this changed? Is city placement less of a concern in Civ 6?

I honestly avoid the religious part of Civ 6. It's my least favorite part of this version of the franchise.

 

[Victoria]

Has this changed? Is city placement less of a concern in Civ 6?

Passive pressure is weaker in 6.
Even in V I did not care so much about my city placement, more about how soon I got missionaries out amd what to convert.
... and there are some that like the religious game but most do not. There are a few great pantheons and a couple of good beliefs.