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[R&F] Spring Patch - AI and Airforce?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by DrJambo, May 10, 2018.

  1. DrJambo

    DrJambo Crash-test dummy

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    Prize to the first person to get through a game and tell everyone if there's been any changes to the AI's use, or lack thereof, airforce.

    I admit, I simply cannot be arsed starting a new game at the moment. The patch is interesting but this oversight is too disappointing.
     
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  2. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    :nono: The title of this thread got me excited for a moment. Thought I was going to find out there were reported sightings of AI airforce after the patch.
     
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  3. DrJambo

    DrJambo Crash-test dummy

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    Apologies, I can see how that might be the case. Edited it slightly.
     
  4. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Thanks! :)
     
  5. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Judging at least by the patch notes, it's more likely that there will be reported sightings of AI UFO's than aircraft...

    OTOH, AI warrior/slinger rush is alive and kicking... :D
     
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  6. MrRadar

    MrRadar King

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    I have just completed my last pre-Spring patch game. The turn after victory I decided to nuke Korea for fun, her calling me offal of the ocean the whole game and all...
    I ordered my jet bomber to drop a nuke on her city... and then fell from my chair when I saw this:



    and again this:



    I... I'm speechless... This is the first time I see AI intercept a nuke strike since... a very long time in the franchise. And to use planes against me in Civ 6? This is the first one as well.
    So AI has the capability to build and use planes, but apparently, something prevents it to do this more often.
     
  7. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    I remember at after some patch during vanilla era, AI used bombers to destroy improvements... but then at some point they became more rare?
     
  8. crouchy

    crouchy Chieftain

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    Last week the enemy AI attacked me with a bomber. I couldn't believe it.
     
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  9. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    They did use air (to some degree) before R&F (I am not sure what patch), but then all of sudden the AI decided that an Airforce is not that important. Let's hope that we all will be bombed in our next game :lol:
     
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  10. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Yes, after last patch I also had an AI bomber destroy a mine improvement. It only happened once, however, never to be seen again.
     
  11. LMT

    LMT Warlord

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    I continued a game as Mongolia after the patch was installed. Was in a war with Shaka and near his border, one of my field cannons was destroyed. However, I didn't see any unit of his that did it.

    My 9-year old son was playing with me. I said out loud, "What the heck did that?" My son said excitedly..."It was a jet fighter!" Sure enough, Shaka had an aerodrome right near where the incident occurred. I'm so used to ignoring those that I didn't even consider that as a possibility.

    I can't recall the AI ever destroying a unit of mine. Not sure if this was just a coincidence, though.
     
  12. RDomico

    RDomico Chieftain

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    I autoplayed a prince level, standard map game. The year is now 1982. I checked and I see 4 Jet Bombers exist. No other aircraft exist. I am not sure if this is really a valid test, but that doesn't look good. I also only know those bombers were built. I don't know if the AI actually used them to bomb.
     
  13. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    That's consistent with pre-patch behaviour. Lots of Aerodromes get built, randomly a bomber or fighter will get built in one of them, randomly one of the bombers will get used on an even more randomly chosen improvement/district for a strategic bombing run. Then it disappears.

    Has anyone ever seen the AI use bombers as they were in Civ 5, to finish off vulnerable military units in conjunction with the attacks of other units or to blast out the walls/health of cities under siege?

    Or seen the AI build an Anti-Air unit to protect against player bombing attacks?
     
  14. Karpius

    Karpius King

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    I have always maintained that the AI knew how to use an air force, but there must be something in the algorithm that can steer it away at some point, making its appearance and/or use very inconsistent from game to game and civ to civ.

    The last game I completed right before the patch had Japan with a sizable and active air force. There were deployed fighters as well as a number of SAM units that cost me a number of bombers. They also used bombers to good effect against armor and artillery units. Korea, however, built only fighters, but did deploy them, and they did defend against air attacks. Cree had aerodromes, but no aircraft, and Mapuche had bombers but only seemed to use them against naval targets. Thats what everyone is looking for right? However..... the game right before that, with the same game set-up, saw absolutely no air units from any other civ but my own. Korean and Mapuche happened to be in that previous game as well, but failed to produce any aircraft.

    What was the difference between the two games? I have no idea. I can only assume (and lets not forget I know nothing about programming and such) that the AI is directed to certain paths early on and the further it follows one path, the less weight is given to other possibilities. Based on the anecdotal testimonies of other Civfanatics, I would guess building and using air forces is on the low end of the probability scale. I should also add that nearly all AI aircraft I have seen have been jet bombers and fighters.
     
  15. Funababbitt

    Funababbitt Chieftain

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    Bombers in R&F have such short range they are all but useless. I'm looking for a mod. OTOH, rocket artillery seem overpowered to the extent that a couple can leave a city defenseless and ready for conquering.

    The other terrible failure is the naval game. The strengths of the naval units are fine. The problem is that civs rarely build cities on the coast and I've barely seen any semblance of navies.

    The result is that it seems hardly worthwhile to build air or navy units. R&F is a big improvement over the vanilla version which I stopped playing for a year, while seriously wondering if I'd ever buy another Civ title. Firaxis may be pulling this out of the fire but the naval and air game are definitely in line for improvement.
     
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  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    But bombers have a longer range than artillery and they don't have to set up. 10 range is pretty far and by the time Rocket Artilery comes along, Jet Bombers are 15. I actually think there's no reason to build anything but planes (and the occasional tank/helicopter upgrade to speed through cities) in the late game unless you don't have aluminum or can't get an airbase nearby. I rarely build siege at all, and really can't remember the last time I even built rocket artillery.
     
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  17. Leathaface

    Leathaface Emperor

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    I was playing a game on Immortal and late game Arabia was using a Jet Bomber against me. I was also watching TheSaxyGamer play on deity and the AI used air units too. Which is good.

    BTW in the same Saxy has Toronto to his west, a totally coastal city, and the Aztecs were able to capture it even though they couldn't get to Toronto through Saxy.
     
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  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Artillery seem better at city busting. I'm pretty sure bombers have a nerf to city attack (I'm too lazy to look it up) like say ranged units do. Artillery will take down walls faster than bombers. Especially since you are likely to have corps or army artillery which you can't do with bombers.

    That said, bombers are still my go to choice if I am planning world conquest that late in the game. You just have to build lots of bombers, 2 or 3 isn't enough in my opinion. I like to have 5 to 10 bombers. While they take longer to take down city walls, you gain the time in that artillery has to move and get into position. Combine with fast units such as tanks or helicopters and you are golden.

    Though I can't remember the last time I built air unit. I've been concentrating on early victories in my game, well before air units become relevant. And even if my games do continue that long, the AI will never attack me that late in the game making air units irrelevant.
     
  19. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Nope, fighters are the ones that have it labeled as ranged strength. Bombers are bombard strength. And jet bombers have a higher strength than any kind of artillery (at least base).

    But even if they didn't, artillery move around much slower, and this late in the game, I don't really see the point of laying siege. That's just way too slow. Might as well nuke everything if you go that route.

    Well that too. Late war is its own niche and I guess it's not really important if you play efficiently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  20. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I've stopped playing. Been playing Hearts of Iron IV. That game is so much more fun. Civ VI, mostly due to ai shortfalls, and to a lesser extent slow turns (which I view as coding laziness), is just not fun for me anymore. Plus, they rarely fix bugs - I'd be ashamed if I was running the show.

    I dream that the devs of hoi make civ vii.

    As an aside, I'm playing hoi as much like civ as I can - still a civ lover at heart. Its just unrequited love.
     
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