Spy caught twice -> BACKSTABBED

[Wodan]

Ok, this is wrong and hopefully will be changed.

When you catch someone's spy, you get an option: "We insist that you spy on us no more."

Then, if you later catch them a second time, that option doesn't show, all you have are the other options, to let it go or to denounce.

If you denounce and you're friends, YOU get a "Backstabbed" diplomacy hit. That's exactly the opposite of how it should be. If you're friends with someone, and they spy you, fine, but you can demand they stop. If they do it again, then THEY should get the backstabbed hit AND you should have the option to immediately cancel the Friendship (or, denounce automatically cancels the Friendship as well as denounces).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Agreed.

And when the hell are we going to get the option to tell the AI off or taunt them the way they do to us? They have the option to say or do so many things to us we can reciprocate.

 

[docbud]

I hate that as well. I had a game last week, where I had to keep forgiving Monty when he stole four or five techs in a row. Grrrrrr. I didn't want the diplo hit.

I'm playing a game now where I have yet to catch one single spy. I am getting robbed blind. Monty (again in this game ) and Sweden, have stolen three or four techs each, and now they have level 3 spies in my capital, and my spy is still level one.

I have a constabulary and a police station, but I still can't stop the stealing. I'm about ready to just move my spy to a city state ally to keep influence, and to hell with it.

I mean--I can't stop one single damn spy????

In fact, I finished navigation, and two turns later it was stolen from me....

 

[apocalypse105]

Welcome to the diplomacy of civ 5

The AI is just like this in every interaction. IF you declare war a lot of civs get angry at you for warmongering while if a other AI conquers a city state or declares multiple time he isn't a warmonger.

And when I see a little nation who is weak all AI ask me to join in a war against him proparly the biggest reason is to take their land who is the warmonger?

We will see if this hypocracy of the Ai will be changed Dennis shirk told us that he would change the chizophrenic AI But we will see . he olso said at that about gods and king at pax

 

[azzaman333]

Don't sign DoF's with AIs steal techs from you if you want to denounce them. Really, who cares if some backwards AI is stealing your techs, it doesn't negatively affect your civ.

Welcome to the diplomacy of civ 5

The AI is just like this in every interaction. IF you declare war a lot of civs get angry at you for warmongering while if a other AI conquers a city state or declares multiple time he isn't a warmonger.

And when I see a little nation who is weak all AI ask me to join in a war against him proparly the biggest reason is to take their land who is the warmonger?

We will see if this hypocracy of the Ai will be changed Dennis shirk told us that he would change the chizophrenic AI But we will see . he olso said at that about gods and king at pax

This is false. It's not a coincidence that the warmonger civs are the ones who consistently get denounced.

 

[Bergerperson]

Hey, if you catch a spy, you have a moral/ethical justification for invasion. If your friends don't trust you, just invade them with the largest force ever assembled. Your arrows must blot out the sun!

 

[docbud]

They have to fix it so spys can play defense. I just had FOUR techs stolen in the same damn turn.

@azzaman333: I don't have any DOF's right now, and although this does not relate to the OP's post, I think it's bull crap that I have yet to catch or stop one single spy, and I was the first to get one and immediately put in my capital. It's pretty ridiculous that I research artillery, and four or five turns later it's stolen. What is the sense of even having spies on defense?

Now, I'll admit in other games my spies worked great on defense, but then you get some games where it's totally useless and frustrating. I mean, seriously--I can't stop one damn spy and I just hit the modern area??????

 

[azzaman333]

I think a lot of the streakiness depends on whether your defensive spy catches someone, and therefore levels up, early in the game. Recruits aren't much good at stopping foreign spies, while a special agent is much better.

The other way to counter the effect of spies is to play wide. Spreading the science burden across many cities means none of your cities have a high enough potential for enemy spies to ravage your techs.

 

[docbud]

^^Well, apparently my early spy sucked big time. I hit renaissance first and immediately put my spy in my capital. I realize that it depends upon my defensive spy catching someone, but sometimes it gets ridiculous. A defensive spy can't stop a half-dozen other spies who are stealing.

And they are stealing so much that they are all probably level three by now, and my defensive spy is still level one. I mean, seriously--I can't stop ONE single spy???

 

[azzaman333]

^^Well, apparently my early spy sucked big time. I hit renaissance first and immediately put my spy in my capital. I realize that it depends upon my defensive spy catching someone, but sometimes it gets ridiculous. A defensive spy can't stop a half-dozen other spies who are stealing.

And they are stealing so much that they are all probably level three by now, and my defensive spy is still level one. I mean, seriously--I can't stop ONE single spy???

I level up my spy by stealing a couple of techs before trying to use it on defense.

 

[Traejun]

Agreed.

And when the hell are we going to get the option to tell the AI off or taunt them the way they do to us? They have the option to say or do so many things to us we can reciprocate.

I tell off the AI all the time... with pikes, arrows, bullets and other such meanness.

 

[Sidor1982]

^^Well, apparently my early spy sucked big time. I hit renaissance first and immediately put my spy in my capital. I realize that it depends upon my defensive spy catching someone, but sometimes it gets ridiculous. A defensive spy can't stop a half-dozen other spies who are stealing.

And they are stealing so much that they are all probably level three by now, and my defensive spy is still level one. I mean, seriously--I can't stop ONE single spy???

The game mechanics works the following - the higher population city you have, the more chances of tech stealing the spy has and does it more quickly. So when going tall the spies stealing techs are extremely efficient and annoying. It's completely not balanced, but on the other hand can be exploited on higher difficulties (mostly deity), where the AI has technological advantage and huge cities. I've had games where I was able to steal like 15 techs from the AI. The key is to avoid a non relevant tech path with a couple of obsolete techs (for example sailing, optics, compass on landmass maps), steal these cheap techs first to get level 3 spy very quickly and then continue with the most expensive ones.
And I also hope the diplomacy mechanics will be fixed asap or at least with the expansion, cause basically all of its aspect need serious revising.

 

[Jelster]

Both William and Theodora have passed the 3 strike rule with me in my current game. I have both their capitals now. If you are the tech lead I expect to lose some, but when I catch spies even from "friendly" civs, they 3 chances.

I may not DoW them immediately, but their day will come. I have noticed that since doing this in my current game the level of theft has depleted quite a bit, and some normality has come around.

Mind you, I'm starting to run away with the lead, have the largest military, and tech lead. Maybe they know what's good for them

 

[apocalypse105]

Don't sign DoF's with AIs steal techs from you if you want to denounce them. Really, who cares if some backwards AI is stealing your techs, it doesn't negatively affect your civ.



This is false. It's not a coincidence that the warmonger civs are the ones who consistently get denounced.

Only if they whipe a civ out if they declare multiple times they aren't a warmonger while the player allready gets this if they dow 1 time not really well implented if you ask me

 

[Bergerperson]

Speaking of Warmongering, I am playing a game as the Germans, and I went to war with the Iroquois (My first declaration of war, one turn after both Washington and the Koreans declared war on the Iroquois) and I got labelled a warmonger. Serious, it my first time on the map going to war, how am I a warmonger? I have since then conquered the Iroquois, but still, why was a labelled a warmonger from EVERY civilization on my continent by going to war once?

 

[Browd]

What happened in your war?

 

[apocalypse105]

Speaking of Warmongering, I am playing a game as the Germans, and I went to war with the Iroquois (My first declaration of war, one turn after both Washington and the Koreans declared war on the Iroquois) and I got labelled a warmonger. Serious, it my first time on the map going to war, how am I a warmonger? I have since then conquered the Iroquois, but still, why was a labelled a warmonger from EVERY civilization on my continent by going to war once?

Because the warmonger penalty is to sensetive especialy on maps lager then small its breaks the game appart. I wouldn't mind see the warmonger penalty changed depending on the map size

funny thing is that like in you're example some AI who olso are at war or have dowed and denounced the leader will dislike you for declaring war on him really?

Keep you're fingers crossed and hope that dennish shirk wasn't lying about changing the warmonger penalty in brave new world because he olso said this about gods and king

 

[Skyre_Solon]

Agreed.

And when the hell are we going to get the option to tell the AI off or taunt them the way they do to us? They have the option to say or do so many things to us we can reciprocate.

That would be awesome!

 

[Bergerperson]

What happened in your war?

I took an Iroquois city while the Americans took another. It was later (Last night) that I finished the conquest.

Because the warmonger penalty is to sensetive especialy on maps lager then small its breaks the game appart. I wouldn't mind see the warmonger penalty changed depending on the map size

I am playing on a huge map with 22 civilizations. However, I was also playing on one with the same number of civilizations where I didn't get the warmonger penalty until my third war.

 

[Jerman]

Also if you own (take a couple of cities) an AI THAT DOWS YOU you shouldn't get the warmonger hit because they get what they deserved.