I want to craft some Spy change proposals next session, so want to collect general feedback around the state of the system. It may turn into multiple proposals depending on what is noted. I'll also differentiate bugs vs features as there are a few bugs outstanding.
Bugs
Coups
Radicalize the Local Populace
Counterspying
Bugs
- Notifications are sometimes missing yields you gained, or show you phantom yields (like science I gained even though I didn't do a science steal).
- Kidnap mission never expires, leading to infinitely stacking specialist yields.
- Negative spy power is possible, leading to weird scenarios where you can have like -1 turn duration missions.
Coups
- Too easy in the early game (generally a flat 75% success).
- It is also somewhat mysterious as to what effects coups suddenly in the late game. You go from this 75% all the time to suddenly drops into 10-20%....and I never understand when or why this happens.
- CS Coup Mission generates way too many yields. I would argue for a full 75% nerf, that's how high I think it is. My opinion might change depending on how hard we make coups. I would even argue if these kinds of yields are appropriate for this quest. The only other one that gives this type of bonus is the number of followers gained quest, a very unique and often very difficult quest that requires a lot of dedication and planning.
- In general I think this mission does its job. A fast, low risk mission that gives you long standing intel. Its pretty solid, I don't use it often but I have used it on occasion.
- One possible idea might be to roll this up into the other missions (maybe with a shorter duration). So I do a steal, I get X yield AND I gain surveillance for Y turns in the city. This might be a way to generally increase the utility of spy missions compared to CS rigging/coups.
- General Feedback: The missions are too weak. The yields gained compared to the effort spent (number of spy turns, risk of death/identify) is just not worth it.
- Specific Feedback:
- Mission times should likely be compressed. Mission Times of 1-4 turns gives such pitiful results its not worth talking about. Conversely, 30+ turn missions are far too long. I think the minimum should be 5, max 20.
- Yields should likely be an extra 25% across the board (50% of science, +75% of faith).
- It can be argued that perhaps security shouldn't adjust mission times for these (as longer missions provide more yields), but perhaps should just lower the % stolen. So maybe all missions here are 10 turns, but at security 1 you get 25%, at security 5 you get 10%, something like that.
Radicalize the Local Populace
- This is a decent "screw you" type mission providing a variety of hits, so it generally always does something.
- The growth penalty can become a bit annoying as it can become "permanent" in your capital if you have a few enemies that like this mission.
- One idea might be to increase the pillage pain but remove the growth penalty. Turn it more into a war type "insta screw" rather than a longer term play like the yield steal missions. This may give it a better niche and provide you more fun active spy tools during your wars.
- The bug aside, I like this mission. Its a reasonable benefit for its quick time, and its actually a great mission to use in low security cities.
- This is a good well designed mission. It requires some planning but normally is workable in your war plans if your smart about it, its a good and strong effect without being overbearing, and the security impact is good.
- I don't have a lot of experience with this one, as its hard to know when an enemy city is going to be unhappy.
- The main issue with it is, I normally would want this in some backwater city where it can cause real trouble. The problem is if that city turns out to not be unhappy when I get there, its usually a city I don't want to do other spy missions in, so I always feel like I have to abort and lose my spy time.
- This is actually way too good right now, letting a dedicated player catch up in tech in the blink of an eye.
- There are two fundamental problems:
- The mission times are too wide based on security: I can steal techs in 5 turns of 30 turns...hmm, which one should I do.
- I can stack spies in the same civ and steal multiple times. It is possible not to steal 1 teach in 5 turns, but 3 or 4.
- There has to be some kind of cap on this mission. Maybe only in the capital, or only 1 per civ, or maybe 1 period at a time per player.
- Comes too late in the game. By the time I can do it, my CV play is already going. I don't find a few more Great Works are going to change things. I would much rather steal techs and get to those juicy tourism boosting techs in the late game than snag a few more works.
Counterspying
- The +2 happiness / -25% yields isn't terrible in a pinch.
- The specialist boost one is decent but it requires a level 3 spy!
- I have never used the other ones, don't seem worth it to me.
- One annoying thing is that security can fluctuate greatly during spy transit. I can send a mission to a Security 1 city, only for it to get there and it's a Security 5 city, makes my efforts completely worthless.
- Security in the early game is always max, which means my first spies (especially from statecraft) don't have much to do. I either go for the CS coups (because its the best), or I can drop my guy as a diplomat to get experience. Counterspy options aren't great until I get some levels.
- I personally don't feel that constabularies actually really "do anything" when it comes to security. I never feel their impact.