Spying in multiplayer?

[Keilah]

I played a pangea multiplayer FFA the other day and had the idea that spying would work really well... after all, there are no tech trades and nobody ever does counter-espionage or anything, so it should be easy.

It didn't really work, sadly, for a few reasons.
- 1. People don't open borders in multiplayer
- 2. Can't spread your religion at will because of 1.
- 3. multiplayer FFAs are 99.9% played at quick speed. That means the time for a spy to walk to an enemy city, and then wait for 5 turns, is effectively much longer than in a normal-speed game.
- 4. multiplayer FFAs are 99.9% played at noble difficulty. That means city maintenance is a joke, which means you don't need courthouses.
- 5. Human players build armies and try to kill you. That means the hammers spent on courthouses and/or spies had damned well better be REAL efficient.
- 6. Spies require alphabet, which is otherwise useless in multiplayer because there are no tech trades.

Has anyone had any success with espionage in multiplayer (pan FFAs in particular), or should I just not bother?

 

[whats a navy]

I have never had success in a pan ffa with espionage but on earth evolution maps they work really well. The difficulty is usually emperor and with a large civilization such as russia or ethiopia you can get a lot of espionage from settled great spy from the great wall or from courthouses. I've played games where I research one tech path (to communism for example) while I steal from someone going for rifles.

Plus, you don't even need to be stealing techs to make espionage work. The passive effectives such as ability to see into cities and see research are also very well. If you can spot an enemy stack marching for your lands that gives you 3-5 more turns to prepare which can win you the battle.

 

[stimpyhoek]

no dont bother on ffa

timeframe is too short

ppl leave

spy on ai is pointless

spy on human is even less so

 

[rah]

YES most games are pretty much over by the time Alpha is researched.
But if not, a few spies to keep track of enemy SODs can be beneficial.
Passive is usually about it. Up the weight on the person that concerns you the most.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

On quick with closed borders against players that, on a whim, could slap a 100% cost modifier on you? I think I'd pass on advising that.

You can use EP to sabotage improvements if they don't settle on them (like iron), drop city defense (if that fits into your plans), screw their civics, etc but as a central tech-theft plan? Not recommended. Even if you COULD get open borders, nobody would leave them open if you start leeching techs.

In other words, if you're playing against players who are so bad that they wouldn't respond to espionage properly, you don't need its help.

It's only so crazy vs the AI because it doesn't remotely try to stop it.

Spies ARE still good for seeing where people have their units and their #'s though, as spies can enter closed borders.

 

[Keilah]

"on a whim, could slap a 100% cost modifier on you"

?

 

[r_rolo1]

On other MP settings ( PitBoss , Hotseat ... ) EP can be done with some ease ( especially if you convince people to run a spy ring ). On FFA ... well, the simple fact that the espionage interface is a clickfest makes it a not so hot idea

 

[Um the Muse]

"on a whim, could slap a 100% cost modifier on you"

?

There's a little-used mission in the dark corners of the spy's repertoire: the counter-espionage mission. It makes spy missions more expensive for X turns and makes the likelihood of getting caught higher.

 

[2metraninja]

One way of using espionage in MP is if playing duel. Building The Great Wall can net you the GSpy, which can convert in to 5-6 stolen techs

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Even then, you have to:

1. Tech alphabet.
2. Hope your opponent doesn't tech alphabet
3. Build a wonder instead of expanding or building military
4. Invest into spies

If they run counter-espionage on your it's going to be a lot less than 5-6 techs and a lot more in spies than otherwise.

Of course, all this is on the assumption that your opponent is out-teching you too and/or going a different tech path .

 

[Elkad]

On quick pangea games, probably not worth it.

But spying is huge in slower games (pitboss/pbem). Especially if you have an ally. I often tech alphabet even without trading just so I can see everyone elses techs. And maybe build research occasionally to shave a turn off a critical tech. Of course I won't prioritize it like in a trading game, but I'll get it fairly soon.

 

[Tabarnak]

Gilgamesh is probably the best suited to try an annoy-humans-with-spies economy. The Great Wall is needed. Add his UB in a lot of cities for nice effects.

A few years ago someone made this strategy against me with high efficiency(with Gil). I don't remember who. He had a large country. I think it was a 6 players game.

 

[coanda]

I wouldn't call it great strategy, but I recall seeing a write-up of an entertaining friendly MP game where one guy went mercenary spy - offering spying operations in exchange for techs or gold.

 

[pixiejmcc]

Until I started singleplayer recently I didn't know espionage was a feature of CIV

 

[Sian]

the prime use for EP's in MP, in my opinion is the ability to view others graphs/Research and/or your prime enemy's city visibility, being able to see where his stack is so you can either intercept or dodge (depending)