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Stability Bitmaps

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Linkman226, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Putting my utility to use :)

    Here are the stability bitmaps for each civ. I'll try to keep them as up to date as possible with the SVN. Enjoy.

    Egypt
    Spoiler :


    India
    Spoiler :


    China
    Spoiler :


    Babylonia
    Spoiler :


    Greece
    Spoiler :


    Persia
    Spoiler :


    Carthage
    Spoiler :


    Rome
    Spoiler :


    Japan
    Spoiler :


    Ethiopia
    Spoiler :


    Korea
    Spoiler :


    Maya
    Spoiler :


    Byzantium
    Spoiler :


    Vikings
    Spoiler :


    Arabia
    Spoiler :


    Khmer
    Spoiler :


    Indonesia
    Spoiler :


    Spain
    Spoiler :


    France
    Spoiler :


    England
    Spoiler :


    Germany
    Spoiler :


    Russia
    Spoiler :


    Netherlands
    Spoiler :


    Mali
    Spoiler :


    Portugal
    Spoiler :


    Inca
    Spoiler :


    Mongolia
    Spoiler :


    Aztecs
    Spoiler :


    Mughals
    Spoiler :
     
  2. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Ottomans
    Spoiler :


    Thailand
    Spoiler :


    America
    Spoiler :
     
  3. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    My opinions:

    China really should get some better stability more inland and in Vietnam. They certainly tried to hold and held these areas.

    Persia should get Egypt as yellow.

    Phoenicia really should get North Africa/ Southern Spain as core.

    Rome should be yellow in Spain, England, France.

    Ethiopia's light green really should be shrunk so as not to include the Swahili coast.

    Vikings don't deserve light green in India for small, short-lived colonies of the Swedes. Ditto for the Caribbean.

    I DON'T EVEN as far as Arabia is concerned. Like, what happened there. No wonder they love settling in Eastern Africa and Sudan and conquering India. Come to think of it, same for Anatolia/ Thrace. That needs to be shrunk badly. For example, why on earth are the Philippines and Papua New Guinea green for them?

    Indonesia has a random green dot in western Burma, not sure what's up with that.

    Spain's core should exclude Portugal. And why are two random Alaskan plots green for them?

    Mali should be yellow for the French.

    What's up with German green in the Americas? High German population in parts of the Midwest and Great Plains, and a few weak colonies strike me as insufficient warrant.

    Russia really shouldn't get green on Cuba.

    Mongolia needs a lot of love in the stability department. It should get a lost of yellow and green across most Eurasia.

    I know Mughals haven't been done yet. They should get Pakistan/Afghanistan as core, whenever you do finish them Leoreth.

    Turks shouldn't get areas just because their ancestors controlled them. And less of North Africa as well, their control was shoddy there.

    America, I also don't even....so there's a few military bases, doesn't deserve stability increases across a good chunk of Europe and Anatolia. And Liberia shouldn't be yellow either.
     
  4. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    China needs more inland love, Tibet has for an extremely long time been part of China.

    Greece is very gratuitous.

    Persia should get parts of Egypt

    Carthage should be part of Phoenicia's core so it can maintain integrity without Sur.

    Rome should get Iberia as yellow because it was their most important province

    Japan has a little too much

    Viking's don't need Greenland as green since it is uninhabitable, stability in India is just weird

    Arabia, wat is this I don't even :confused:

    Spain shouldn't have Portugal as core, Brazil and Argentina don't quite interlock, those two orange tiles are bugging me.

    France need more West Africa stability

    England needs buffed stability in North America and Africa



    Mongolia either needs a lot more yellow and green or a drastically reduced tile penalty

    America, basically remove everything not in the Western Hemisphere, also give it that one tile in cuba
     
  5. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Brazil isn't core for Portugal- Core is the darker green.
     
  6. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I've tried to get Leoreth on board with the idea of good Chinese stability in Vietnam (and a few other places, like the return of Xinjiang, Yunnan, Tibet & all Manchuria rather than just the south), and while it seems like everyone is in unanimous agreement of this, he's not biting. That southern half also needs to be core'd.

    Also, I laughed for a good second when it appeared that the Phillippines
    had been taken out of the Japanese stability map but they still have Vancouver & Seattle.

    What happened with Rome? So much seems to be taken out of their stability map.

    The England map needs more of Canada in light green.
    If that light green in China is supposed to be Hong Kong, it's severely off, and that yellow there should be done away with altogether.

    To bring up a second point, I don't think Eight-Nation Alliance or sphere of influence trading justifies European colonies in China that aren't Hong Kong or Macau. I'm also in agreement that the Viking colony in India is just absurd.

    One more would be Dutch & Portuguese trading contacts with Japan.
    Completely unjustified for territorial control.

    I don't even know what to say about the Dutch map.

    Abstract or not, I'm of the opinion that these really need overhauls.
     
  7. IrishDragon

    IrishDragon Legend

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    IMO, China should get Tibet green, Rome should get Spain, Cyprus and England, the south African coast should be removed from Ethiopia, Indonesia and Japan should get the Phillipines, England should get more of North America and some of France, Russia should get more of Europe and more further east of the Caspian, the Mongols should get most of Asia, and the Americans should get most of Europe removed from them
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    First off, thanks for making them Linkman, that's really very helpful. I think I've discovered an error, though, I'll mention that in your tool's thread to keep things focused.

    Inland is what, Yunnan? Or do you mean Tibet?

    I'd like it if they settle there, they're the best representation of natives there

    I suppose Rhye went Arabia = Islam ...

    Oversight.

    Didn't they have trade posts up there?

    Agree, although we maybe should keep some of those non-colonial civs' spots because they serve as settler maps too after all, so that the Americas and similar areas aren't completely untouched in the case the civs that belong there collapse. It's the same reason why I don't have any problem with some odd Viking/Swedish tile.

    As for the Germans, Scandinavia should be red. I hate it when they start eating the cities there when the Vikings collapse.

    Does it? We still want it to collapse until roughly 1500.

    I think the core is fine as is, maybe it could be extended 1W to include Qandahar.

    Yup.

    That'll make an enormous rectangle with lots of exceptions ...

    That's ... debatable, but yeah.

    Where? It has everything in English Canada and everything east of the Appalachians except Washington for obvious reasons.

    Locating and changing the tiles that are off isn't exactly user-friendly so I went with correcting those which caused problems. Also I don't see a problem with letting Japan settle there in case the AI likes to go colonial.

    I haven't done anything to them, it's Rhye's map.

    India is fine imo, it's not like there are free spots to settle anyway. Australia is a different issue, I think I should limit their stability there to the (north)western coast.
     
  9. SeekTruthFromFacts

    SeekTruthFromFacts King

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    They should at least get Chongqing (the missing tile in the southwest), Tibet and Xinjiang. China's influence everywhere in Mongolia is at least as strong as Europe's in Africa.

    I second this. Also, why are Buenos Aires and bits of Canada Roman????

    Small but influential. The Danes were in the Caribbean for three centuries, weren't they?

     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Those small Roman enclaves in the Americas are due to Italian immigration, I imagine (Buenos Aires has a large share of Italian immigrants, for example). As I've mentioned before, it's worth to keep these despite their questionable historical justification, because single tiles don't matter much for stability, but make their civs colonise there in case the traditional colonisers have collapsed.

    As for the civ != nation debate, I think what's important here is the impact it has on the game. Arabia's stability in Indonesia doesn't matter much, because they don't go there anyway, and it's not as if they're too stable currently. Turkey is a different topic, because with the inclusion of the Seljuks, Turkey represents the Ottomans only even more than before. And imo they should get no incentive to conquer independent cities in Transoxania (which the stability there does).

    On the matter of China, I'll create a thread soon to evaluate its situation.
     
  11. IrishDragon

    IrishDragon Legend

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    Liberia I don't think is too bad, because there is at least some historical basis on par with Italy and Germany in north America, the Europe stability is crazy though
     
  12. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    The problem is, these maps also kind of dictate safe & unsafe places for players to go, not just the AI. So if that light green in North America is there for Japan, it only stands to reason that after conquering China & Corea, logically, you'd settle Vancouver because there isn't a penalty to do so. I'm all for some Japanese West Coast, but I think it would be more historically sound to have them in places where they actually have more presence instead, i.e. NorCal Bay Area, SoCal Los Angeles. All the reasons for Japan getting any part of the West Coast are shared with China if not less justified.

    EDIT: Also. Why doesn't France have that dot in the Southern Indian Ocean which I'm guessing is Kerguelen?
     
  13. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Hawaii needs to be actually usable and the Japanese should get light green there
     
  14. Synapce

    Synapce Warlord

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    May I ask why Rome has green spots in Canada and Argentina?

    EDIT: Just read Leoreth's post, sorry.
     
  15. IrishDragon

    IrishDragon Legend

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    England should get some contested areas in France, they controlled Gascony for nearly 300 years, and other areas closer to their own coast (would this also spark more wars with France before the colonial era?). Should also get Nigeria, and possibly Cyprus, and the rest of Canada
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Some English stability in Aquitaine and Normandy wouldn't hurt.
     
  17. Gem Hound

    Gem Hound Deity

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    You only have to really core the square of Qart Hadasht and a few squares around Iol.
     
  18. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Why not make a tAdditions tuple?
     
  19. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I think the Gascony point is kind of moot considering the English kings were French vassals at the time and were debatedly quite French themselves during that period (depending on your interpretation of Normans being de facto Vikings or French). We don't give France stability in England for the same reason, do we? Arguably if England gets contested Normandy & Gascony, France should naturally get some contested Southern England for the vassal rationale.

    Also about the Rome =/= Italian immigration thing.

    If we are going to do that, let's make it more accurate and give them light green in New York,
    New Jersey and a couple other Eastern seaboard spots and not what is that, Nova Scotia?
     
  20. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    France should get stability in England so when I'm culturally obliterating them I don't get a stability penalty
     

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