Standard deity playthrough - any advice is welcome

[Pedro78]

Sup everyone!

I've been lurking on these forums for a couple of months, though I never felt the urge of participating yet, selfish me

I'm getting kinda bored of playing civ4 at the moment, well I still love this game but everytime I play I find it either too easy or too challenging and almost never finish a game either way...

So I thought playing a game while posting frequent writeups on the forum might be stimulating for me to play, plus it would definitely help me improve my gameplay, can't wait to get the criticisms of all the experienced players out there.

ANY criticisms are more than welcome, even on my unperfect english . I probably won't be able to resist the urge to play in order to wait for advice between every turnset though...
Anyways, I hope this will be entertaining for everyone who sees this, now let's get to the point...

...this is deity, standard, pangea, normal speed, no huts no events game (fractal is sure fun, but I didn't want to bore you guys with some unplayable isolated start over which I was gonna ragequit anyways)

First random roll is Mansa Musa, nice leader, and the start looks quite good :

Spoiler :

Settled 1 NW after moving warrior :

Set research to agriculture and met Joao turn 5, now turn 10 wondering whether I should go BW, AH or maybe even Pottery? Oh and I'm probably about to loose my precious warrior over a stupid bear

Edit : after a short minute of thinking, I'm going Animal Husbandry for the early cows plus chance of horses. If no horses then I'll go straight for Archery

Uploaded the starting save if anyone's interested ^^

Edit : I've put everything into spoilers in case anyone wants to play this map

 

[Pedro78]

Okay so played it untill 2000BC (T50)

Spoiler :

T11 -
Indeed, my warrior died to the stupid bear

T22 -
Met Gilgamesh on turn 22 and set all EPs on him, not sure who is the better techer between him and Joao, but Giggles is definitely more dangerous
Joao adopts slavery

T23 -
Finished Animal Husbandry and got horses immediately I think about an HA rush, but isn't that a little cocky? Anyways, need to explore a little before I consider this more seriously
Now going Pottery, then BW and Writing

T39 -
Second city up and horses connected, now building 2 chariots ASAP, the map doesen't look too barb crazy as of now, so I hope those will be the only defense I build for a looong while

T45 -
BW revealed copper pretty close, so I plan on settling 3S1W of capital
Didn't switch into slavery as I don't need it yet and it increases maintenance

T49-
Chopped the tile I am gonna settle, love when I get the opportunity to do this ^^ (or maybe it is just a waste of worker turns? didn't do the maths to be honest...)
Bad guys incoming North East, hope they are headed to my friend Joao
Settler 1T in capital, now growing Djenne in order to work silver + horse

T50 (2000BC) -
Settler done, everything looks much better now that Djenne is working the silver mine
Gonna get another quick settler in order to claim the eastern clam. Is that a good move? I like the fact that it would kinda block Joao off + it isn't too bad a spot
After a (little) bit of exploring, I feel more confident about peace-teching all the way to lib + cuirassiers/cavalry... well I'm really scared of early wars on deity actually Not sure if I can get enough hammers/gold to get a big army though as I don't see any marble
Definitely needs more exploring but I'm scared of barbs right now

I uploaded the 2000BC save if anyone is interested, would any more details/pictures do any good? I'm talking like I'm an expert but I've probably already done some stupid mistakes lol (gotta love these smileys ^^)

Edit :

Spoiler :

City placement plan :

Looks like I'm getting 6 guaranteed good enough cities - just realised the eastern clam city couldn't be on the desert tile... gotta be 1E from it then
A thing that sucks is I'll have to farm a river tile in order to irrigate the wheat

 

[ManUnited4Ever]

Looks interesting. Will follow this thread. Unfortunately not a Deity player myself, so no advice.

 

[DrCron]

Looks like a tough map.

Spoiler :

After clam city you only have fish city on the west (which will need to chop a culture building to get the fish) and that's pretty much it. Timbuktu only has 1 FP + 3 grassland river tiles for good cottages, so it won't make a great bureau capital (though the FIN trait might make it decent). Lots of plains and tundra tiles, and no city with 2 food resources to get NE. So it doesn't look like you'll have it easy to go for the lib race.

I'm sorry I can't give much advice. I'm not a good deity player and I know I would struggle with this map. With Joao so close I think an HA rush might be doable (since silver gives enough early commerce), but I'm not sure.

 

[Pedro78]

@ManUnited4Ever : thanks ^^

@DrCron :

Spoiler :

Yeah the land outside the capital isn't very good, I think the lib+cuir strategy relies on whether I will get marble or not, and on the remaining 4 AI. With marble I could get NE + Great Library in the wheat and fish city (if I share the cows with Timbuktu, it won't perform too bad as a NE spot), also get the Taj later on. I also hope there is no big techer among the remaining AIs. If I end up getting no marble and the remaining AIs are something like Pacal + Mansa + Asoka, it is sure gonna be a tough game.
I also hope Joao gets big enough and doesen't get eaten by Sumeria, monster Gilgamesh is the last thing I want to see.
Right now I don't feel confident about the HA rush, as I already went Pottery + BW prior to writing the rush will come quite late. Also I don't have many forests and would struggle big time getting out enough HAs. I'm not too sure about whether an HA rush would have been possible, had I planned for it early enough.

Edit: well I'm actually pretty sure it would have been doable, I just don't have the skill level to manage it

 

[Pedro78]

Update to turn 1000BC (T75) :

Spoiler :

After Writing I turned off research for 7-8 turns and went Aesthetics, as I didn't see the point of teching anything else this late

T66 -
Probably was an error to settle this close to Joao, as he just stole "my" cows, + there is a risk that he flips my city at some point

T68 -

A bit of exploring shows quite a weird map (for a pangea), still haven't met anybody else
Joao got a whole lot of land to expand, scary...

T70 -
Joao got Alpha

T72 -
Finished Aesthetics, now gonna put ~2 turns of research into alpha
Met Alexander who has only 4 cities. Looks like he is somewhere to the east of Joao

T74 -
Met Brennus who is located to the east of Joao as well, 5 cities same as Alexander
Got Alpha from Joao for Aesthetics, now turning off research for a few turns, maybe even until I get an Academy in Timbuktu
Founded another city on the western fish spot, which will mostly help me growing cottages until I can grab the fish

T75 (1000BC) -
Traded around, got Fishing, Hunting, Mysticism, Masonry and Maths
Bad news is nobody's got marble for trade
I dont know why the hell Joao isn't spreading his religion yet, no biggie but still kinda annoying
Looks like the last guys got all the nice stuff (oh and the guy who built the oracle got CoL from it btw) :

So from now, the good scenario is Joao settling all the jungle and improving it for me... and bad scenario - which is much more likely to happen - is him growing huge and kicking my ass

 

[ManUnited4Ever]

It looks hard to pull this one off. Joao will swell into an unstoppable juggernaut with all that free land. Do you have Horseback Riding?

 

[Pedro78]

Update to 400BC (T99) :

Spoiler :

T78 -
Met Sitting Bull, 6 cities but quite tech wise - at this point, unless the last guy is Mansa it doesen't feel like this will be a fast tech game, especially as everyone's in different religions

T81 -
Switched EPs to Joao as Gilgamesh was putting all his points on me, still can't see what anyone is researching
"Empire" overview :

T83 -
Met the last guy, kinda hoped for a stupid warmonger like Monty or Shaka, bad luck here :

He already has Construction and CoL (from Oracle) but only has 4 cities so I don't see him as a big threat in this game... plus he is the only guy in Judaism

T87 -
Joao is officially an ******* :

Only had Currency for 1 turn, accepted the demand as I don't wanna take the risk of him kicking my ass, especially as I still cannot convert to his religion

T90 -
Went for CoL after Currency as I want fast Civil Service, just got CoL
Bribed Alexander on Sitting Bull as they were both quite ******ed tech wise
Research isn't looking too bad right now, little overview :

I probably went a little too quick and careless on tech trading, but I really wanted to get monarchy ASAP, and needed cash to fund research

T99 -
Got Civil Service and 7 cities, research going up a little
Now time to spread irrigation to my low food cities so that Timbuktu can work all the cottages
Research looking quite good in comparison to what I'm used to, though the financial trait helps a lot

Went a little crazy and DoW'd Gilgamesh and then bribed Brennus onto him
Sumeria is teching a little bit too fast for my liking, and I hope this will screw the global diplo situation, who knows, maybe even bribe Joao on him later on?
As they are neighbours and Gilgamesh is quite far away from me, I hope he won't send too many troops my direction, anyways this will probably slow him down big time

Overview :

Capital (not too good right now, but should be much closer to 200bpt in ~10 turns when it gets to work all the cottages)

Diplo and tech situation :

Edit : why is the site censoring the word "r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d (******ed)" ?

 

[Pedro78]

@ManUnited4Ever : I don't have HBR yet, but after playing a little I am not so worried about Joao (should I be?), most of his land will be jungle and tundra. If everything goes right, by the time I hit him with cuirs he should have ~15 cities but he won't be too advanced in tech yet. It all depends on my ability to pump out enough troops.

End of the 400BC update :

Spoiler :

The explored map :

Right now my tech plan is Litterature - Philo - Paper - Education then either lib Nationalism or get Music and lib Military Tradition depending on how the tech game goes
Should build NE in Kumbi Saleh to pump out great merchants and upgrade HAs to cuirs, not sure how big an army I will be able to stack up, nor do I know what date it will come at (too lazy to do the maths lol)

If everything goes right I should be able to roll over Joao and Gilgamesh with cuirassiers, then the rest will be a piece of cake. If I can't manage a clean cuirassier rush then the game will be screwed as Joao and Gilgamesh will grow into monsters (the latter will eventually conquer the whole eastern part of the landmass).

Edit : Oh and I almost forgot, it is only a matter of turns before Gao flips to Joao, that's a shame...

400BC save attached

 

[DrCron]

Again, not a great deity player myself, but I see some issues here:

Spoiler :

Whales city (Awdag... something) doesn't have any food (whaling boats don't give food, not to mention you need optics to get them) and mostly tundra tiles, it looks like a waste of maintenance. If you had settled instead the no resource city to the SE, 1 tile N of where you put your sign (def a better location), I'm pretty sure it would have been a better city once you brought irrigation to it. Or you could have stayed at 6.

Apart from that, once you have currency, building gold is usually better than building tech, since you probably don't have any gold multipliers, but you should have some libraries. Still, the tech situation doesn't look so bad. If you already have an academy and can use a 2nd GS to bulb philo maybe you still have a chance at lib.

If Gilgamesh doesn't take any cities from Alex I wouldn't bribe Joao on him, you don't want Portugal winning the war and snowballing.

 

[Pedro78]

@DrCron :

Spoiler :

Thanks for the advice.
I founded the no food city mainly to get the iron. It doesen't exactly pay for itself as the war with Gilga screwed up my trade routes, but the iron makes the city worth building :

I thought about founding it 1E from its current placement, but the clam city can't afford to share the clam.

You're completely right about building gold, that's a dumb mistake, I probably forgot about it because I was building research before Currency.

I'm not 100% sure about the Gilga vs Brennus matchup. Both are strong warmongers, but here Gilgamesh has 1 more city, a small tech lead and an overall stronger stance. I don't think he would be able to handle Joao + Brennus though. Maybe if I get the opportunity to bribe Joao on Gilga then I'll try to pull Gilga off Brennus and then maybe get Brennus involved in the Sitting Bull vs. Alexander war. Sitting Bull is currently kicking Alexander's ass, not sure about when exactly I should pull him out.

I think lib is pretty safe, but the main issue is how to get enough great merchants & HAs by the time I hit Military Tradition. I also really hope these guys don't tech too fast so that Gilga doesen't have rifles by the time I hit him.

Oh and regarding to the no ressource city where I have put a mark, I am not sure whether it is a good investment. Placing it 1N of the mark would allow to share the clam with Gao, but this city already has soo few tiles to work I don't think it can share a food res either. Placing it 1W or 1SW of the mark would allow it to share copper with the soon-to-be NE city which isn't going to need it for a while, plus grassland farms could make it grow a little. Still not too sure about whether it's a good move though.

 

[Pangaea]

Don't have many comments as I'm not really a Deity player (some wins there, but few games, and prefer Immortal), but just wanted to note that you didn't need the plains farm on the river to irrigate to the wheat. Flatland cities irrigate too, so a farm between the city and wheat would be enough (post CS, obviously).

 

[Pangaea]

Okay, one more thing. Did you actually complete the granary in the cow-city before building the workboat? Always improve food first.

 

[Pedro78]

@Pangaea :
Oh damn I didn't realize the irrigation thing. Idk why, I thought the irrigation was only spread this way : (river-farm-city-farm), and not directly river-city-farm. Too bad...
I'm not 100% sure but I think I finished the granary first as I didn't have fishing when I built the city, but wasn't far away from alpha... either that or I built a granary and then whipped a work boat.

Another mistake I made was not building a monument soon enough in that same city. Now I'm afraid it will flip to Joao.

 

[kevtrev]

ANY criticisms are more than welcome, even on my unperfect english .

imperfect not unperfect

criticism does not need to be pluralised

r.e.t.a.r.d is a politically incorrect term for someone with learning difficulties

 

[Pangaea]

I guess it's fair enough then... that I label idiotic city placements by the AI

I believe it is also a medical term, in relation to medicine. As in the drug is slowly released into the body.

 

[catalin72]

To win a map deity 'just' standard size is not a joke..,need more luck(=good map,++++) and good 'skills'.You know the bonuses of AI in deity difficulty ?
I have a subscription in YouTube,a good player from USA,have more maps deity,Chris67132,maybe can learn some things:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgT_HmP4nlz5wECKOkIlj9Q
Anyway,good luck with this map !

 

[DrCron]

@Pedro78:

Spoiler :

I founded the no food city mainly to get the iron

Then founding Niani 1W would have been better. You can wait until a border pop for the iron, since you don't need it until Cuirs anyway, right?

 

[catalin72]

Resources are standard or balanced in this map ?

 

[Pedro78]

@kevtrev : thanks for the grammar ^^

@catalin72 : yeah thanks I do watch Chris' videos, they are great and I learned a lot from them. Ressources are standard.

@DrCron :

Spoiler :

I wanted the iron early for trades, as I lack GPT and happiness ressources. Founding Niani 1W might have been better long term, but it would have needed a monument to get the iron as religions came really late this game.