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Star of the Shogun: Realpolitik

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by Lighthearter, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    *Casually wonders if the opposition still exists*

    It seems to me that the only posts by members of the ASP coalition are defending the government, whilst the people attacking it are non-affiliated in coalition terms. So the big power block that was created to oppose the [whatever the governing coalitions name was] has effectively ceased to exist. You guys aren't really fufilling the primary purpose of your alliance right now, ya'know.

    DT
    Commenting :think:
     
  2. arya126

    arya126 Squad Leader

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    This lack of opposition is starting to remind me of the need of an opposition attack dog....I think the opposition needs a ravus and arya combination. Now THAT is a terrifying combo. And if DT helps? The govt won't survive a week. :p

    But in any case, since I seem to be the only one speaking out against these laws, I guess I'm standing in for the opposition until they return. And because of that, I hereby ask the government to abandon this harebrained law scheme, as it is my opinion that it is a waste of time. Your intent is admirable, however, I for one will most certainly not agree to a 'consensus' to declare an AR when that promise may force me to harm our nation. No, your laws hold no point. If someday attempts to suspend elections, then there are 2 circumstances that may be occurring. One, an AR will be agreed upon by the rest of us, and succeed because the shogun loses all support. Two, the shogun will retain enough of his support to defeat any ARs proposed, or even have enough support to scare off any ARs in the first place, which is what would happen if any sane shogun is chosen that wishes to suspend elections.

    The truth is, chaos would ensue here if any shogun wanted to suspend elections, and an AR would follow naturally without so called 'laws'. The laws serve no purpose. We don't need them to declare an AR, and if the shogun tries to do something the opposition doesn't want it to, the opposition should do something about it, not rely on laws to keep it from happening.
     
  3. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    We must have faith in the will of man. For men naturally are good and is society that corrupts it, the society must be fixed so that our people are good again. I shall call this "social contract", for that means that the people willingly gives away its power to a supreme ruler, but to ensure that he won't be corrupt and abusive, laws shall be created that protect the people and that can't be broken by men but at the cost of losing their honour. And laws should be respected in order that honour is kept, for shame shall be cast on that who dares breaking the laws.

    ooc: Idea! As we're Japan and honour is very important, we could have a honour-meter, starting at 100 and lowering with each despicable action (assassination, breaking laws, etc.)
     
  4. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    Who cares about his honour as long as he is in power and has support? The laws that i dont like ( like sogun be absolute ruler of japan) i will break them in order to create new federal laws. And then the other president will break the laws to create new laws and so on.
     
  5. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    You fool!!! :mad:

    Honour is more vital than blood itself! Blood without honour is useless, a men with no honour is worth nothing, no honour means destruction for honour grants a man respect, and to ancestors too.
    Dishonourable behaviour grants you social exclusion, for good men who have honour won't dare to approach the vile men that lost it and continued to live!
     
  6. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    You mean like PC? We've already got that. :p

    DT
     
  7. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    ooc: No, because it would be doing something despicable that makes you untrustworthy, which should mean that NPCs revolt if you are in power or something like that. More based on IC reputation than importance (the Shogun gets the most PC, but if he terminated elections, his honour would drop).
     
  8. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    My understanding was that political capital was based on IC reputation...

    Can I get a GM ruling on that?

    DT
     
  9. arya126

    arya126 Squad Leader

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    Joank, you just lost my respect. You just compared yourself to Locke, Hobbes, and the other great philosophers who had come up with social contracts that reflect society, and you are not deserving of being compared to those greats. You are no philosopher. You are a fraud.

    Now stop with this ridiculous concept about 'honor' and abandon this law concept. Laws SERVE NO PURPOSE whatsoever. If a shogun commits acts that are unacceptable to the majority, he will feel a reaction. Such is politics. But in this game, the shoguns power is absolute, as is the peoples. If we the people feel that the shogun did something so wrong that he must be deposed, then an AR will follow. Laws will not change that, nor make it more likely, only bind the people and the shogun so that neither is free.
     
  10. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    No, I just introduced the social contract into the game through my character. Sorry, but as an Isolationist I won't quote a non-Japanese author but to criticize it.

    And we are all philosophers. We just don't write our thoughts down although, of course, theirs were in a deeper scale. But believe me: the mere study of philosophy and thinking about it make you a philosopher. You may think someone is right and support him. You might add nothing to his teachings, but you support him because you think they were right. This generally involves a thought on them, and thus makes you a minor philosopher.

    On the honour, it was one of the axis of Japanese society for centuries. It should be taken into account. The laws are there to be respected, and if you don't, then the people shouldn't respect you either, for laws are theirs and the respect ought to the laws is that ought to the people as a whole.

    EDIT: If I have offended somebody in borrowing the basic ideas of the social contract and/or because of having proposed a simple method for deeper playing, I beg you to forgive my humble person, for it was not my intention to do so.
     
  11. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Chieftain

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    Oh dear god, how in the hell did you people ever survive without me?

    No, wait, I already know the answer. Ravus.

    Now about we stop all this nonsense about an armed revolution before certain people suddenly find it very hard to do business in Kyoto?
     
  12. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    Ravus only sat there and gave advice. Well, and commanded the KD to become a de facto police, but only after christos was killed and the damage done.

    EDIT: @DT: If PC was based on IC reputation, RS should be at 0 for publicly admitting to having killed christos.
     
  13. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    We didn't. Every RP you haven't been in has collapsed. :p

    DT
     
  14. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Chieftain

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    Well we're just going to have to fix that aren't we?

    Everyone settle the f*** down or I'll have to start repeating what I did to Ilduce.
     
  15. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    What did you do to him?
     
  16. Nukeknockout

    Nukeknockout Rusty Hinge

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    1: Honor is perceived social capital. It just keeps things civilized and helps the nation run smoothly.

    2: That's not a law. That's the core structure of the game. The Shogun is free to fritter away power if he so desires, but it's all given by the Shogun.

    3: But it has to done with tact, in case a majority of the Daimyos disagree with eliminating some laws.

    @Arya: Laws are codified actions by the ruling administration. The Admin enforces laws. The GM enforces Rules. Laws help the admin remember it's stances on things and mold the nation as they see fit. But it is foolish to expect controversial or extreme laws to exist when a new Shogun ascends.

    @JoanK: A torture narrative which did not trip the censors, but which LH refused to allow posted.

    -Daimyo Nukeknockout
     
  17. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    Political Capital is ENTIRELY based on how significant you are in the turnset, reputation mattering almost nothing. If you're visible and present, you get more PC.

    -L
     
  18. JohannaK

    JohannaK Father Figure

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    What does that mean?
     
  19. Nukeknockout

    Nukeknockout Rusty Hinge

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    Ilduce was being a pain, and he was captured thanks to some Professor Moriarty style brilliance from Ravus. Ilduce quit the game and Fargle decided the best way to play his death was to torture him to oblivion. After the first narrative, LH refused to allow any more to be posted.

    -Nukeknockout
     
  20. Dem Taqat

    Dem Taqat Bladespawn

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    Dude Died Horribly.

    DT
     

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