Star Trek Mafia: The Original Spewing - Crew and 3P win

Well nice of you to show up, but you really haven't done much to really put you on town read. Your misconstruing of my post doesn't make your reads seem believable to me. You say I town read Sommer, then voted for him, but you quote showing my town read of Sommer shows me voting for you. Before that I was ambivalent on Sommer's status, but given how everyone said Tak is bad, I thought it would only make sense if both Sommer and Tak are Maf, and a dead Sommer gives more info than a dead tak. I wasn't super suspicious of you, but your complete lack of truth and horrible reads puts you in the heavy wolf lean for me.

The last quote where he says that I voted for Sommer while saying they are town. Like read a bit will ya. Also yako didn't answer the question on why he was defending Csargo, and just said day 1 reads, when Csargo was acting sus enough to be wagoned. I just want to get an answer and instead they went on a whole rant against me, which I find incredibly suspicious.

Yeah cause I love to roleclaim, but I can't really do that here sadly. The thing is I gave reasons why I voted Sommer, making Yakostovian's statement a complete and utter lie. If they had just said why they had a bad read on Csargo I would have moved on to someone else. And for you Arak, try doing something other than tunneling me and maybe people won't suspect you.
Where's the lie?

P#1150 "Given the votes, Sommer is probably town"
-LordArgon 4:56 PM PST

P#1158 "Wagons today should be Sommer vs a huge list of people"
-LordArgon 5:10 PM PST

P#1161 "Ooops, Vote Sommer"
-LordArgon 5:17 PM PST
The above are paraphrased, just FYI

Vote: LordArgon
 
I'd agree that Visor is probably town, but then I usually read him as town anyway, so that's not saying a lot.
Very low effort read.

Ok, yako's reads feel real. I would like him to be little more elaborate, but this reads like something he has in his head, when thinking about the game.

I would say that Snerk's wall was definitely of lower quality.
 
Official Tally

Voting
- 14

Takhisis (4) - Arakhor, Empoof, Synsensa, Zelda

Empoof (3) - Visor, Monty, Winston

Arakhor (3) - Dolby, JohannaK, Raskol

Yako (1)- Argon

Johanna (1) - Snerk

Argon (1) - Yako

Sommer (1) - Takhisis

Not Voting - 3
Aimee, Manasi, and Sommer
Day Two ends in approximately 31 hours at 4 PM PST on Saturday, Feb. 22nd.
 
Very low effort read.

I was just agreeing with Winston and Yako. I wasn't claiming any great insight or anything.
 
Why are people on empoof again? Is it for meta reasons or something.
 
I strongly disagree with much of the conclusions and thought process in Zelda's posts last night, but I think that he made them is pretty town. Strong disagree with Tak/Sommer "never w/w" (I think that if Tak's scum it's only w/w)

I maintain that a Tak/Csargo team tries to avoid m/m wagons at EoD, and I don't think that maf committed to D1 bussing that early when Sommer and me to some extent is an option

Reads list is on-par from town!Tak last game, I think that no one but me has brought up how Tak's played in Franklin

Have strong issues with calling Csargo default lynch, agree that Zack was town leader

I think Visor has more wolf potential than people are giving him cred for

Sommer's posting is town but I'd encourage him to not automatically clear everyone on the Csargo wagon. Pretty much committing to not voting Tak is big.

Snerk wanting to look into the off-wagon is sus, especially given how he pretty much exonerates Arakhor within that group.

Again, I find the Tak/Sommer maf world far more compelling than the Tak/not Sommer maf world.
 
Sommer/Tak

-never w/w
-both of them are scummy, tho
-there's a chance of them being v/v and it's the only scenario in which we can't kill both
-Tak angle shot, made some wolfy defenses and that terrible d1 list
-Sommer's activity was forceful, he didn't reenter the thread today

Sorry Dolby, there's still should be a wolf between them.

I agree that if there is a klingon in this duo, there's only one and not both.

The issue I'm facing is that Zack fingered both of them... and both of them have been almost equally ?????? in response/behaviour. Sommerswerd going as close to a self-vote as he can is weird -- and I can see now how that is suspicious. It was brought up at the beginning of D1 that self-votes are scummy and I was confused by it, but now I get it. But then Takh is throwing out incoherent defenses, citing Sommer not posting here as reason for us to switch from him, and then FoSing anyone who engages with him. Neither are having particularly good shows.

So suspicions on Takhisis/Arakhor/Yakostovian based on D1 rereading.

Spoiler Yakostovian :

Yakostovian ( :love: ) has some good posts imo... but it striked me how he has been backing Csargo and distancing from Tak (without scratching him) all day long... and pushing a sommer lunch (villager imo)

-----------------



His 2nd post is a read list. With Csargo TRed. Tak is null.



but it is true OMGUS. Sticking to this line all day.



I am not ignoring that.



For the love of Jebus, I will never do that...



liking Csargo for town, don't think Tak is town, but not willing to vote him :think: bad read/incoherence or lying/distancing? Since there is a pattern in this D1, I am inclined to think it's the latter.



never did. stayed on sommer until the end. Again, that might be some kind of distancing.





"hope to see Sommer stay in the lead" OK... followed by a flat description of what Csargo did (aimee style). Not reading him whatsoever, it feels like a Csargo's rehabilitation attempt. Also not mentioning the content of the readslist which I found very bad.



LA is getting worse as time goes.

I agree re: Argon, although I see he walked back his disagreement with me from before. I'm sympathetic to that (I did it with Monty, after all), but in terms of coherence and reasoning his posts are Takh/Sommer-esque.

I also included your read on Yako in this quote because I wanted to thank you for it: when I was thinking about my reads in bed last night, Yako was null despite getting attention from others. But seeing his behaviour separated from the chaff pushes him down a little.

I didn't post in this thread yesterday because yesterday was too stressful with it seeming like everyone was after me. When I glanced at the thread after it reopened it seemed like things were even worse than yesterday and even more people had made up their minds to kill me so I thought "Well I'm dead, that's that" I figured at that point that literally anything I said would be interpreted as grounds to kill me as folks had already made up their minds, so I wasn't really up for posting in the thread:(.

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

Also, it seems dumb to lynch, any of the three people Csargo said we should lynch, (Tak, Montmercy and Synsensa) because Csargo is a confirmed wolf. I mean, its possible that he named one wolf in his "I would lynch" post just to throw folks off, but all three? No way, right? So those three people have got to be given a pass, again, at least for a couple days until more suspicious targets are explored.

So the people who seem like they should be assumed town and lynch-exempt at this point are Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi and Monty, because those are the people, who are still alive, excluding myself, who either voted for Csargo or were named by Csargo for a lynch (Tak and Sysensa were both). My final thought is that anyone who has been hard pushing anyone on that list (people who voted for Csargo or were targeted by Csargo) for a lynch has to be a prime suspect.

Also... what are "bus / bussing" and "PR"?

This is fairly linear thinking. It's certainly possible, but the issue with linearity is that it's immediately defeated with the first manipulation from either Starfleet or klingon. This also assumes that a wolf would never vote for a wolf, which is just not true. It does stretch credibility for it to happen on D1, but I can't see it being impossible either.

One issue I see here is that you're proclaiming the purity of those who lynched Csargo... but then you say anyone who wants to lynch Takh is a prime suspect. So which is it?

This isn't the first post that fell into this trap/self-defeating premise. I think Argon did it too, but I cannot remember 100%. In particular it often puts me in the middle of it, because someone will say my behaviour re: Csargo means I am town but then in the next paragraph say that me pushing Takhisis means I am mafia. Definitive statements are being made that contradict each other, and the result is that nobody and everybody is under suspicion because any one of us can cherry pick a paragraph that exonerates us (all the while ignoring that there's likely another paragraph in the same post that puts us under suspicion).

It also makes it tough to figure out what your actual position is. A segment of people are town-read by you... but then they're prime suspects. Or vice versa -- someone who is a suspect is suddenly town.

After thinking about it some more I am now 100% certain that Tak is town. I also agree with the analysis linking me and Tak. Here are my reasons:

Tak voted for Csargo last round when Tak could have voted to kill me instead, but is now voting to kill me this round, what that tells me is Tak was guessing that Csargo and I are both wolves and wants to kill us both. That means Tak is town. There is no way a wolf would vote to kill two wolves consecutively. If Tak and I were both wolves it would make sense to save me over Csargo, if I was a PR wolf, but that theory goes out the window with Tak voting to lynch me this round. If I was a PR wolf, worth sacrificing Csargo D1 to save, Tak wouldn't then turn around and immediately lynch me on D2. So either I am a wolf and Tak is not, or neither Tak nor I are wolves. There is no way Tak can be a wolf.

If Tak was a wolf killing Csargo D1 instead of me only made sense if me and Csargo were both wolves. If Tak was a wolf and I was town then obviously Tak would have killed me, so it made sense D1 to think all three of us were wolves. But now Tak is voting to kill me so it no longer makes sense to think Tak is a wolf. Tak is town and guessing that I am a wolf.

Now since I know I am town, I know for certain that Tak would have voted to lynch me instead of Csargo D1 if Tak was a wolf, but there was no way for the rest of you to know that. But now with Tak opening up the day by starting a wagon on me, it should be clear to everyone that Tak can't be a wolf. Anyone still calling for Tak to by lynched has to be a suspect wolf at this point.

Here is what I suggest. Lynch me instead of Tak. That will prove I am town and clear Tak once and for all. At least then we only lose 1 town instead of two. My worry is that you let the wolves convince you to lynch Tak, which will not exonerate me, even after Tak is reveled to be town, then you will lynch me because reasons, which means we lose two town instead of one. If you are hell bent on killing both of us, let it be me first, because at least then you will only make 1 mistake not two.

Tied to my point before, this is just not a good look.

Sommer, you're not a newbie, right? I remember people saying that you're a veteran -- you haven't played in a while, but you know how this works. This whole thing about how you didn't post because you assumed it was game over, about how you don't know how any of it works, and now asking us to lynch you to clear Takh... it's either sloppy play or a bad gamble. I don't know that you'd get the result you're seemingly asking for here, since your lynch has no bearing on Takh's innocence.

I'd rather see your reads, and an actionable defense, than you tossing yourself over the edge prematurely. That there are votes against you doesn't mean you just give up. It's obfuscating the process to be fatalistic. You're a lawyer! This should be obvious to you.
 
I would say that Snerk's wall was definitely of lower quality.
Wow, such insight, very perception. What did you disagree with and why?
especially given how he pretty much exonerates Arakhor within that group.
I did no such thing. Why are you making up things about me?
 
I did no such thing. Why are you making up things about me?
Some musings:
Occam's razor says the Csargo wagon is pure. In general, bussing tinfoil hasn't been productive for us lately. Now this is assuming that Sommer is town, which he may not be. But I'm giving him a town point based on statistics if nothing else. w/w wagons d1 happens but w/v wagons are much more frequent. If there was a busser I'd look at manasi, she made some posts that looked like she was probing for a way off the wagon.

I always find the offwagoneers interesting in these scenarios. As wolf it's kind of a decent compromise between bussing and jumping on a counterwagon. I find that it's more temping to sit there as wolf than town.

Those are Johanna, Arakhor, Aimee and Winston.

I guess it's within Arakhor town meta to be cautious but still.

I don't see why Jo or Winston, as town, wouldn't just hammer down of whatever of the two wagons they preferred.

From the Sommer wagon I'm liking Monty the least right now. Thinking Monty or Jo right now.

Perhaps "exonerate" is a strong word, but you make it pretty clear that he's the most townread of the group

Also, you just mention that Monty is sus and you might vote him. Not the biggest Monty fan this game but what's up with that?
 
I did no such thing. Why are you making up things about me?

Dolbster is convinced I'm scum, despite never playing with me before, so apparently if someone who has played with me before confirms that my being cautious is not just an act, that automatically makes you suspicious too. Yet I'm the one tunnelling people...
 
Dolbster is convinced I'm scum, despite never playing with me before, so apparently if someone who has played with me before confirms that my being cautious is not just an act, that automatically makes you suspicious too. Yet I'm the one tunnelling people...
You literally aren't cautious, your play is pretty much trying to get LA policied because "there's nothing to read off of", actively trying to suppress reading based off of the content, and being salty about the lynch

If that's town Arakhor I'm disappointed
 
You literally aren't cautious, your play is pretty much trying to get LA policied because "there's nothing to read off of", actively trying to suppress reading based off of the content, and being salty about the lynch

If that's town Arakhor I'm disappointed
But, is Arakor even voting Argon? Last I checked, no.

I feel like Arakhor is sinking, and the fact that he responded to my quote wall about it and addressed my suspicions of LordArgon a little concerning, especially if it's true that he's shading Argon without voting him. I'm absolutely shading Argon, and would very much like to see his flip over others.
 
Well Arakhor not doing anything important seems to be their default mode, making annoying to have as town. They don't really solve or put out anything strong, making them hard to read, which is why they are being voted up.
 
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