Star Trek Mafia: The Original Spewing - Crew and 3P win

[Empoof]

Tak could you answer my question if you're around

 

[Takhisis]

I'm still a hundred posts behind but vote: Synsensa.

Tak could you answer my question if you're around

Any post in particular? The number of tabs with this thread I have right now goes up to exactly eleven.

 

[Empoof]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/star-trek-mafia-day-two.655151/page-70#post-15679968

 

[pzelda]

That's some seriously vague stuff right there zelda. A series of subjective and unassailable accusations without any examples what so ever. With a catch-22 that I "care too much" thrown in for good measure. I guess I'm biased but this is not a very villagery read at all.

Tbh, your response makes me even more biased. It's not that vague. There are no fallacies in your logic, because there's not much continuity. You're not really building a world. You're asking people questions and are more aggressive than feels natural.

 

[Takhisis]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/star-trek-mafia-day-two.655151/page-70#post-15679968

I'll add it to the wall of megaquotes.

One observation: Snerk is either reading every post in the thread or doing a vanity search of all posts mentioning his own name. (post #1283)

 

[Snerk]

One observation: Snerk is either reading every post in the thread or doing a vanity search of all posts mentioning his own name. (post #1283)

Can't it be both?

 

[Yakostovian]

Cool... but will I get another reply to my read post? Care to explain at least what made you town read Csargo, or that last solar D1 post?

I don't feel like ISOing you at the moment, but if it was the 3-reads (including yours truly) then I pegged you as town for what appeared to be genuine probing and suspicion. If you want something more specific, feel free to @me; I'll check back later.

As for my Csargo read: I said it initially when I was townreading him: he felt muted by the spam rule. When I last read his ISO closer to EOD, I was coming around to maybe scum, but I still had him as more than likely town.

 

[Empoof]

Logic have you ISO'd me yet?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Interesting in italics day, lots of very black and white thinking going on. Sommer, I'm curious why you seem so rigid in your thinking when it comes to Tak. Why are you so sure there isn't a world where he votes csargo to subdue pressure, especially if during the next day he comes in pushing town!you? Shouldn't that make you more unsure about him, not less? Let's pretend scum!tak lynches you over csargo yesterDay, how do you think toDay goes for them given a town!Zack world?

I liked both of pzelda's and winston's process when it came to EoD.

Tak, I'm under the impressive that Zack has basically a god read on you. From both the last game we played and him talking about it afterwards. He even had the logic post flip that you had voted for csargo and had you as suspect number one, having you in the forefront over everyone else. Why should I be going against that? Has he been wrong on you before?

Small note that Visor's credited read on me from logic's list is actually his read on pzelda - I'm pretty sure visor reads me mildly wolfy for lack of presence and Zack having a small wolf read on me.

?????????????????

these are garbage posts

Empoof imo thinks yesterday was WWW (with possibly a doubt on Sommer) so

I'm not overly compelled about the Arak wagon and would prefer tak/sommer/myself

That's diehard investigation just there.

I like it.

Spoiler :

Other possibility is that yesterday was WVV and he is building up credit as wolf in a bold way... I am dismissing this for the time being

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

As for my Csargo read: I said it initially when I was townreading him: he felt muted by the spam rule. When I last read his ISO closer to EOD, I was coming around to maybe scum, but I still had him as more than likely town.

That's kind of slim but I will let it there untill Tak is "flipped".

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK my reads... Here is my original read:

Spoiler :

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

Also, it seems dumb to lynch, any of the three people Csargo said we should lynch, (Tak, Montmercy and Synsensa) because Csargo is a confirmed wolf. I mean, its possible that he named one wolf in his "I would lynch" post just to throw folks off, but all three? No way, right? So those three people have got to be given a pass, again, at least for a couple days until more suspicious targets are explored.

So the people who seem like they should be assumed town and lynch-exempt at this point are Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi and Monty, because those are the people, who are still alive, excluding myself, who either voted for Csargo or were named by Csargo for a lynch (Tak and Sysensa were both). My final thought is that anyone who has been hard pushing anyone on that list (people who voted for Csargo or were targeted by Csargo) for a lynch has to be a prime suspect.

Also... what are "bus / bussing" and "PR"?​

Also Here is Tims final tally for reference:

With the voting completed, Csargo is tossed out the airlock.
Final vote tally
Csargo- Zack, Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Sommer, Manasi, Raskol
Sommer- Yako, Dolbster, Monty, Snerk, Argon, Pzelda, Csargo
Dolbster- Johanna
Aimee- Mary
Argon - Arakhor
Visor- Aimee
Arakhor- Winston

So for me the following are Town or at a minimum lynch immune for D2

Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi, Raskol - for 100% correctly voting wolf D1
Monty - for being on a confirmed wolf's kill list (along with Syn and Tak who are already on my no-lynch list) I will add however that I did say I thought that Csargo might include 1 wolf on his naughty list just to throw things off... so since this is my only positive read on Monty, I will say that he is the most likely decoy-wolf in Csargo's lynch list.

These next folks are question marks for me, but not worth considering lynching D2, because the third group has a guaranteed wolf in it.

Johanna, Arakhor, Aimee, Winston

Group three is the lynch candidates, because they voted me and I am 100% sure they are wrong, while the rest of you at a minimum can't be 100% sure they weren't wrong.
Yako, Dolbster, Snerk, Argon, Pzelda,

I don't know how many wolves there are total, or if we even get that information, I think someone said 5 earlier... but one of these 5 folks is definitely a wolf. Now of these 5, I'm inclined to cross off Snerk because I don't think there are 6 wolves and he was the only one on this list who did not have an extreme reaction to when I finally posted my reads. His reaction was along the lines of "OK that seems townish, I'll consider it" which, again out of the people on this list, seemed the most genuine.

So of the remaining 4 Pzelda would be my last wolf because Pzelda at least did accept that I was town and unvote me, but it was so extreme... "Oh you've convinced me so I am immediately unvoting you!"... It feels a little like pocketing... I mean I like to think I am persuasive and all that but it seemed a little too flattering. Plus if you are so convinced by my reasoning, why switch your vote to Tak who I have been adamant is town? So that was a little puzzling.

Higher on the list would be Yako. In contrast to Snerk, Yako has been just as extreme as Pzelda, just in the opposite direction "I don't care what you say you're wolf that's it lalalalalala!" is my impression of his reaction to all the favorable statements that have been made about me. He's basically tunneling me trying to keep the wheels on their wagon. In Yako's defense, I did vote him first, so he might just be in perma-OMGUS mode towards me.

Up next the top is Dolbster because he has been similar to Yako in tunneling and refusing to consider giving up his wagon. I don't give Dolbster the same benefit of the doubt as Yako though, because when I initially picked Yako, he immediately wagoned me to defend Yako, so in retrospect that makes me feel more like the two of them are w/w backing each other up.

But at the top of the list is Argon. He came after me, guns blazing, right from the D2 outset hoping to get the same wagon from D1 going and then as soon as folks started rejecting the "Sommers is clearly wolf" narrative he immediately tried to pocket me by announcing that he was totally convinced and immediately switching to Tak wagon. That coupled with all the lying about what position he was taking, saying I was town, then voting me anyway (before I suggested a flip), then lying about it, plus all the bandwagoning on the folks I think are town, and the all the distracting role-claiming to obscure his actual alignment... Argon seems like the most suspicious of all

So to me right now I lean Argon then Dolby, that is assuming that folks don't want to just flip me to get a hard-clear on all the D1 Csargo voters and a hard condemn on all the D1 Sommer voters.​

 

[Takhisis]

@Takhisis, I found this about 3P's. Don't think this true modspew

Thanks. Yes, that's the post. Not much to go on, but maybe worth remembering in the future.

Tak, If you're not wolfing, step it up. This sucks and you angle-shooting makes me wanna policy lynch you. He might have whatever spurious reason for appearing in different thread instead of here.

I actually posted on that earlier. It was bait, and I actually found Sommerswerd a lynch candidate independently of that. It's interesting to see that Synsensa (as I detailed in post #1397) chickened out when I called him out on his own ertswhile promises. (watch the video, too)

Given that they are the best two informational lynches today (from my pov at least), Sommer offering to be lynched instead of Tak is a Big Thing Indeed.

It's like, this makes Sommer look very townie, so we shouldn't lynch him. But then we shouldn't lynch Tak either.

Genuinely not sure what to make of this, other than to say it doesn't make me feel any worse about leaving my vote on Empoof right now.

Let's roll with the Arakhor-Takhisis competing bandwaggons.

I'm kinda puzzled by the term wagonomics.

It gets used as if it's some kind of specific analytical process, but it always seem to me like people are just looking at voting patterns and applying their own set of largely undefined prejudices, setting aside aspects of individual psychology and situational motivation as if they're somehow unimportant in the development of those patterns.

If there's actually something more scientific going on there, I'd very much like to hear someone explain it.

It's about as scientific a science as economics. I.e. it deals with humans so it can give rough predictions that will of course not survive contact with factual reality intact.
But it can be useful as a tool.

If Argon is scum, I'd bet this is clearing for Arakhor.

And if Arakhor flips town does that condemn scum?
Also, if Argon is town, how does that make Arakhor look?
And logically, if Arakhor is scum, how does Argon look?

So here is my updated analysis/read since I believe that is what you were asking for. As you know I have suggested that the town flip me which will prove I am town and exonerate Tak and frankly should also clear everyone who voted Csargo D1, because I was the only person who had a different reason to vote Csargo over me (Sommer) when we were tied approaching EOD, other than not being a wolf (I was clearly self-pres'ing). But if you reject that option (flipping me), then I also think its bananas to vote for either of the three folks Csargo targeted as wolf. It makes no sense to conclude on D2 to lynch someone the confirmed wolf told you to.

OK, so fart so good, but whom should we vote for, since you claim to have reread the entire thread in one go?

Tak, I'm under the impressive that Zack has basically a god read on you. From both the last game we played and him talking about it afterwards. He even had the logic post flip that you had voted for csargo and had you as suspect number one, having you in the forefront over everyone else. Why should I be going against that? Has he been wrong on you before?

I don't recall specific instances of events from most games, but if you have the time you'd better look up the Impending Retribution game. Backwards Logic gave me the dubious distinction of being the scummiest townie he ever saw as a host.

That's kind of slim but I will let it there untill Tak is "flipped".

So basically tunnelling then?

 

[Takhisis]

unvote; vote: Arakhor

 

[Takhisis]

OK, so fart so good, but whom should we vote for, since you claim to have reread the entire thread in one go?

Already answered (crosspost)

Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi, Raskol - for 100% correctly voting wolf D1

Careful! The earlier voters on any waggon can just be mafiosi who go caught and cannot move their vote later on in the day for whatever reason.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Already answered (crosspost)

Careful! The earlier voters on any waggon can just be mafiosi who go caught and cannot move their vote later on in the day for whatever reason.

I get that, but it makes ZERO sense to prioritize people who we know with 100% certainty voted correctly, in favor of people who we don't know whether they voted correctly or not. And since I know with 100% certainty that the folks who picked me were wrong, it makes no sense for me to guess beyond that group who the next wolf is, when I know for certain that there is a wolf in that small group.

 

[Takhisis]

All right.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Official Tally

Voting - 14

Arakhor (5) - Dolby, JohannaK, Raskol, Argon, Takhisis

Takhisis (4) - Arakhor, Empoof, Synsensa, Zelda

Empoof (2) - Visor, Winston

Johanna (1) - Snerk

Argon (1) - Yako

Sommer (1) - Monty

Not Voting - 3
Aimee, Manasi, and Sommer
Day Two ends in approximately 25 hours at 4 PM PST on Saturday, Feb. 22nd.

 

[Takhisis]

I get that, but it makes ZERO sense to prioritize people who we know with 100% certainty voted correctly, in favor of people who we don't know whether they voted correctly or not. And since I know with 100% certainty that the folks who picked me were wrong, it makes no sense for me to guess beyond that group who the next wolf is, when I know for certain that there is a wolf in that small group.

So that would be Yakostovian, Dolbster, Montmorency, Snerk, LordArgon, Pzelda, and Csargo. That's an interesting subset.

 

[Synobun]

I actually posted on that earlier. It was bait, and I actually found Sommerswerd a lynch candidate independently of that. It's interesting to see that Synsensa (as I detailed in post #1397) chickened out when I called him out on his own ertswhile promises. (watch the video, too)

Yes, it's very interesting to see me not switching to Sommer when the person I'm voting for switches to Sommer. Your analyses continue to amaze.

 

[topsecret]

One of the crew returns to the transporter room, pondering the mysterious carving on the bottom of the console. They are surprised to find a mess on the transporter pad! They check the transporter logs and find that they have been deleted! Has someone beamed something onto the ship? Something that was...oozing???