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Star Trek Mod for Civilization IV...Good Idea?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Promenthus, Dec 13, 2005.

?

Should a Star Trek Mod for Civilization IV be made?

  1. Oh, absolutely, THANK YOU!

    110 vote(s)
    51.4%
  2. Sure, why not?

    58 vote(s)
    27.1%
  3. Meh, I don't really care.

    28 vote(s)
    13.1%
  4. No, that's a stupid idea and a waste of time.

    7 vote(s)
    3.3%
  5. ARE YOU CRAZY?! OF COURSE NOT!

    11 vote(s)
    5.1%
  1. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
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    I'm personally a Star Trek fan, and I was really bummed out when the Star Trek Mod for Civilization III got cancelled. I'm just wondering if anyone else would want a Star Trek mod? I'd be glad to make the gameplay changes for it (I'm a decent programmer) but I'd need someone to make the models for me (I'm a terrible artist).

    Feel free to post your comments and ideas for the mod.
     
  2. Anima Croatorum

    Anima Croatorum Prince

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    Location:
    Vukojebina, Croatia
    May the force be with you.

    Alas, until we get nif editing tools, trekkie units(ships&co) are impossible to make. Once proper tools are released a Star Trek:BirthOfFederationesque mod might be interesting. :)

    Until then...
     
  3. monkeyman90000

    monkeyman90000 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
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    well this idea was already up http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139198
    and alss if its possible maybe if we ask nicely we can get some flamend units for civ 3 and convert them to civ 4 (if possible) so that there wont be as impossible qnd i say if a lot cause its all ifs
     
  4. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

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    The only foreseeable problem with this mod is probably unit modelling. Even though the SDK is supposed to make the game super-moddable, I've been around Internet forums and supposedly the only program that can alter .nif files (aside from a Hexadecimal Altering Program) is 3DSMax. I don't think many people have $1000s to just throw away on a non-profit effort :p .

    Also, I know I'm in the minority when I say this, I believe the starships should be land units and most (if not all) of the terrain should be "land squares" of a sort, rather than "sea squares". However, the counter to this is that most of the terrain, "space", will be like "ice" tiles in Civ 4. No productivity, but you can expand through them. I simply don't like the idea of playing down starships as "naval units" and having some sort of "infantry" defending planetary systems.
     
  5. Dusty4prez

    Dusty4prez Krazy Kanuck

    Joined:
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    413
    May the force be with you is from Star Wars nt Star Trek >.>
     
  6. Anima Croatorum

    Anima Croatorum Prince

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    Location:
    Vukojebina, Croatia
    And, what is your point padawan?
     
  7. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
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    Beam me Up...Yoda....
     
  8. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

    Joined:
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    lol

    Yeah no kidding.
     
  9. sovarn

    sovarn Warlord

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    the problem with making space all land is roads. unless you disable them workers will spam roads all over space which will make the voidness to space messy.

    also to do with that is trade. it is better if space is ocean so trade can happen with the whole galaxy once the appropiate tech is found.
     
  10. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

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    Yes, I suppose you have a point with the roads... I haven't thought of that...
    But what if unproductive space tiles (outside of solar systems) could be "water", but the starships would be "land units" and could "airlift" or "transport" themselves across the "water tiles", depending on your technological level... Yes, we'll call it "warp drive" :D

    Onto other matters, I'd like for people to suggest a few of their preferences so that we can democratically determine, for example, which Star Trek Theme Song should be the main menu music, or what music we should have in-game, what eras, etc. I have my own plans but I would love to hear what my fellow CivFanatics and Trekkies have to offer :) .
     
  11. Sildo

    Sildo A circle

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    279
    If the game as moddable as they say it is, once the SDK is out you can make your own rules, don't confine yourself to the current engin and possibilities.
     
  12. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I haven't done any real work on the mod yet, but I have been combing the Internet for Star Trek files and screwing with the game and I've modified the "Star Trek: Enterprise Opening Credits" video (yes, the gay, hated Star Trek theme song) to be played instead of the 2K games intro video. I've also established the "Star Trek: Voyager Theme Song" as the Main Menu music.

    Suggestions for a replacement of the Civilization IV Intro Video (which shows the logo for Firaxis Games, a war of sorts, and the crowning of a king) are greatly welcomed as well as any comments, ideas, or other suggestions. If Star Trek is to be reborn in Civ IV, we've all got to participate!
     
  13. Sidewinder00Q

    Sidewinder00Q Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
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    140
    I played the Star Trek Mod for C3C, and think that they are on the right track there. One of the more interesting problems that occur right now, is Naval Units need to be able to barrage land tiles. To facilitate the whole Ship to Surface support fire. Secondly, Minor races need to be kept to a minimum. I found it nearly impossible as Earth to form the Federation because the Vulcans, Andorians et. al didn't feel that my culture was awe-inspiring enough.

    Perhaps a good model for the Early Eras, would be to look at Starfleet Battles. You would have the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Gorn, Lyrans, Hydrans, Kzinti, Tholians, Interstellar Concordium, Andromedans. Multiple leaders means that we have the Federation, or the Terran Empire. The Klingon Empire, or the Klingon Hegemony. Later in the game we can have the Cardassians, Breen, Dominion, Borg, Ferengi.

    A Star Trek Intro video...hmmm...a scene from DS9 would be good. There is another possibility that I would want to look into before I say anything about it. (Don't want to promise something I can't deliver.)

    We would have to have our own map, I would like to see the map made so that it would be "Ideal" to play as any one of them, the C3C mod seemed to favor the Federation more than the others.
     
  14. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

    Joined:
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    1.) I personally detest the intro of DS9 and the show itself (it's just too boring - sitting around on a stationary space station), but it would be possible to implement it. But what was your other suggestion, sidewinder, that you thought would be impossible? I'd love to hear it ;) .

    2.) Now for forming alliances, especially under a namesake, would be very interesting to say the least, but I think with Civ IV and especially with the SDK it should be possible to form permanent alliances and defensive pacts with multiple parties and whatnot.

    3.) I'm afraid I still disagree with downplaying starships as naval units...I'm sorry, I just simply don't like it! Although bombardment is a must, especially if we're going to have fleets consisting of smaller, but more strategic vessels attempting to take on big, bad warships :D .

    4.) Albeit making a totally-fair scenario is incredibly difficult, it could be possible to alter the map scripts (with Python or the SDK) so that they generate mostly "ocean" or "ice" tiles with small clusters of productive tiles, and so that they place starting locations only in such small clusters. I know it's a bit far-fetched, but if Civilization IV is as moddable as they say it is, I say why not?! Random maps for Star Trek that will work!
     
  15. Sidewinder00Q

    Sidewinder00Q Warlord

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    I wasn't thinking about the intro to DS9, but rather some excerpts from the battle scenes during the Dominion War. My Idea was, I play Starfleet Command quite frequently, and I thought that I could fight several battles, record those battles then put together a kind of collage that would serve as an intro similar to the one that Civ has. Wouldn't even need to have them be battles, a quick pass at a Federation Constitution Class Starship would suffice as well.

    The problem is, SFC replays are saved with a .REC extension. I heard a couple years ago that someone was looking into converting the .REC files to a .AVI file, which I could work with. Unfortunately such a conversion doesn't exist. And the more I think about it, it won't exist. All the .REC file contains is a list of ships in the battle, where they are every second, and when they fire what weapons. Then the game engine puts the replay together and displays it.
     
  16. Promenthus

    Promenthus Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Well, I think it's time to get this show on the road.

    1.) The Tech Tree --- I've already started on it, but I'd appreciate any input, suggestions, or critisism.

    2.) Civilizations --- Humans, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Borg (Not Sure), Ferengi (Not Sure), Vulcans (Not Sure), The Dominion (Not Sure, Leaning To a Yes), Xindi (Not Sure), Bajorans (Not Sure, Leaning to a No), Andorians (Not Sure, Leaning to a Yes) Again, input is greatly appreciated.

    3.) Units --- Modelling is impossible right now, but a unit list to correspond with the tech tree is a must.

    4.) Terrain --- Superficially, minor changes can be made. Unfortunately, the SDK is necessary to edit some of the WEIRD file types Civ IV uses.

    5.) Leaderheads --- Impossible, and I cannot do it, even with some super-easy SDK tool. Well, maybe.

    6.) Music --- MUST HAVE SUGGESTIONS!!! Also, it should be Trekky (duh).

    7.) Interface --- Oh...hell...yes...with the SDK...I foresee something Civ III: Star Trek-esque.

    8.) Anything Else You Can Think Of :cool:
     
  17. Impaler[WrG]

    Impaler[WrG] Civ4:Col UI programmer

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    I would sugjest you take a look at Space Empires V or Galactic Civilization II as a base from which to make a Trek Mod as theires are actualy space based games.
     
  18. Kenta'arka

    Kenta'arka King

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    I guess you are talking about the Earth centred map? It's focussed on the Federation because it's based on a real star map. It was planned to do more maps later...I don't know if any were created after I left the project, but as it's a hell load of work I guess no...
     
  19. RogerBacon

    RogerBacon King

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    Yes! Absolutely. Stargleet Battles is a much better "trek" setting than Paramount's Star Trek. It's also much better balanced and conflict-centric. Unfortunately, for every 100 people who know about Star Trek there are probably only about 5-8 who know about Starfleet Battles.

    Roger Bacon (already charging up a type R plasma torpedo)
     
  20. Sidewinder00Q

    Sidewinder00Q Warlord

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    Photons set to Proximity, Wild Weasel standing by. :D

    I would think that a pre-Federation start would probably not be in the best interest of the game. Maybe immediate Pre-Fed, but the C3C mod started in 2063, it was very boring sitting around waiting to be able to build my first Starship. True that Civ starts the same way, you plant your first city, and then wait until that city becomes productive before you can do anything else. Also, I didn't care that the time went by so fast, it's a problem in Civ too, but I think that the Star Trek mod exaggerated the problem. You just finish building that first NX Class, and now it says, Build a Constitution Class.

    I would say, run the game from 2150 to 2400, using Month long turns. This would be the "Epic" setting, giving us an even 3000 turns to play (very epic). Normal setting would be the same timeframe but using 2 Month turns. While the quick setting would use 4 month turns. This would allow ships to be useful longer.

    Setting the game in the Starfleet Battles has advantages, it is still Star Trek, but you don't have to scratch your head saying, now what can I use for the Romulan Early Destroyer, SFB has already given you one. (Three in the Romulan's case)

    We can break the scenario into the following eras. (Pre-TOS, TOS, TMP)SFB, (Post-TMP, Pre-TNG) Lost Era, TNG. For those people that don't like TOS, they can start in TMP or post-TMP. For those people who don't like TNG, they just set the game to end sooner.

    Races: I would take the Borg out, balancing them would be a major pain. Vulcans just aren't big enough if we start where I propose, they dismantle most of their fleet in 2154. Ferengi I think should be in there, as long as they aren't as overpowered as they were in BOTF. The Dominion, no, more below. Bajorans, no, Xindi, no, Andorians, no, same as the Vulcans. With Starfleet Battles races, I would probably leave out the Andromedans, they were like the Borg of SFB.

    Map: If we make a "standard" map for all the games, I would say that each race starts the game with three or four planets already colonized. (There was nothing I hated more in BOTF than to find that I started three sectors from another major power and had no room to expand, or the C3C game, when the ANDORIANS took my first extra-solar colony one turn before I could plant a settlement.) I really wish they had used a hex grid so we could put the ENTIRE galaxy in this game. As it stands though, with just the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, we could even leave the Dominion out of the game, make them a non-playable race that spawns a few ships near the Bajoran Wormhole every so often after the Wormhole is discovered. Same as the Borg, occasionally one of their ships will show up and ravage the country side, won't go away until you destroy them. Have the top row of tiles represent the Delta and Gamma Quadrants and make it so that no one can claim culturally those tiles.

    Resources: I want to get away from the various grades of Dilithium that was in the C3C game. I would say early resources would be Antimatter, Lithium and Dilithium. Early Starships could use either, ships constructed with Dilithium would be faster. Mid range Starships use only Dilithium, and by the Late eras, Dilithium is not needed at all (some Tech would take that requirement away) Antimatter is needed for all FTL ships, until the Romulans develop Artificial singularities, which should be somewhere in the middle range.

    Tech Tree: Some obvious techs: Duotronic circuits, Terraforming (required for any colonies on non-class M planets), Warp Drive upgrades, Weapon upgrades, FTL Communications, Metaphasic Sheilding, Borg Contact (more below)

    Wonders: Genesis Device, Dyson Spheres, Respective Acadamies, Utopia Planetia.

    Miscellanious: A Dominion Alliance event would be useful, some race, after the Bajoran Wormhole is found, that is losing (badly) could build a wonder called the Dominion Alliance, and they suddenly get a fleet of Dominion ships to help them out and the ability to build Dominion Ships, which would be cheaper to construct. Borg Contact on the tech tree, would be like Liberalism, you automatically get to discover a new technology for free(and probably some other big bonus considering what it's unleashing), but now the Borg(Barbarian units) can show up in any Delta Quadrant tile and start on a rampage.

    Lastly: I have no Idea how the Combat system is coded, if its something that can be modded or not. But the one on one combat system in CIV doesn't work well in a Star Trek model, If there was some way to work it out so that a stack attack works that would be wonderful.
     

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