Start wars?

[ahman]

What advantages are there to make two or more rival civilizations fight each other? I have many technologies up on my nearest neighbour Russia, and I need maybe 20 turns to build a large enough army to start taking their cities. Should I declare war on Rome and make an alliance with Russia including peace, and when Russia breaks the agreement, I get both happiness, war with them and a lot less troops to fight?

What about starting war between distant civs? I just got Philosophy first and chose Construct, so I have that up on everybody. Should I offer that very precious technology to Scandinavia to get them too into the alliance against Rome, to stop them from trading? Even if Scandinavia breaks this alliance, maybe it at least can get them pissed off at each other?

 

[Everkane]

If you don't crush Russia I find it a bit hard for you to expand later on.

Build some units and go to war versus Russia.

If you feel so, sign in the Romans against them also, since they will be divided in two fronts. But it's not a must.

 

[Puppeteer]

The big advantage is distraction. If it is to be Russia's first war then they may have a stockpile of units to throw at you. If you declare on Russia and join Rome in then Russia doesn't have as many available to throw at you.

I would attack Russia first and claim the iron into your territory. I'm not sure I'd use Rome in this case this early in the game. On the other hand, I haven't playd maps this small, so the dynamics of war and unit buildup may be different.

On second thought, maybe poach the iron by settling in the jungle and attack Rome first then rotate to Russia. It depends on the land Russia has to conquer, how strong each civ is and what your end-game goals are.

By the way, you need more workers. I see 3, maybe 4 max. You need them to finish improving your territory, roading your battle roads and start clearing the wetlands.

I just noticed Tikal is under severe cultural pressure. Your early war priorities should be:

• Claim and secure the iron
• Capture or raze the Russian city S,SW of Tikal

Your war plans should include that calculus and point you in the big-picture direction you want to go.

 

[Theov]

It's very helpful to involve another civ. The enemy then fights on 2 fronts, and that's never a good thing. Sometimes you don't want a strong civ to help, because you might just build a monster. Watch out for that. I wouldn't invite Rome to the party for that reason.

You're building an army with 4 cities. That would only take about 10 turns before you knock on the first city's door.

I wouldn't go after Rome first - since they are the bigger one. I'd make myself stronger by attacking Russia (sounds counter-intuitive, but if you attack them, you grow your army in those turns, gain Iron and land.)

Rome might even run into the Scandinavians while you're battling Russia. That would be a bonus.
If that would happen, maybe you can join the war vs the Scandinavians, get a few bucks from Rome for doing absolutely nothing in the process, making sure that war rages on while you build your war machine behind the Roman backs.

I'd do Russia first and just get rid of them altogether - maybe Yakutsk will be hard to reach... I'd build Javelin throwers first, then catapults because the Javelin throwers reduce unhappiness while you wait for the cats to finish. (not the other way around what you're doing now)
Take Russia, enter Golden Age after your first successful battle. Also, your Javelin throwers enslave beaten enemies turning them into Slaves and remember: Slaves require No Upkeep Hooray for Slaves!! This means you can cultivate your newly conquered land (Russia) very quickly and you can road the Incense and Iron into your land! Those are big advantages.

If Russia had Iron all the time, expect a nasty bunch of 3.2.1 Swordsmen on the counter attack. Run to the hills and make sure you defend with cats a lot.

Then with 3 civs left on the continent, I'd go after Rome with just a little help from my Northern friends.

Asking Rome to help vs the Russians is not unnecessary and costly and might hurt you in the long run if Rome becomes too powerful - and what are they going to do anyway? Attack Yaroslavl? You don't want that.

What would be hilarious though, is to make peace with the Russians before you take their second to last city. Ask for Yakutsk as payment for peace. Then take out their last city the next turn. Give Yakutsk to the Scandinavians.

(oh and if you wonder if you can ever get that Warrior back? I think you can. Border hop him towards your land. Make him stand on one side of the Rome/Scandinavian border in one turn and on the other side the other turn)

 

[ahman]

I'm much closer to Russia than Rome, so I think that almost all of Russia's spare units would've attacked me instead of Rome. I declared war on Rome instead. The few Roman units that attacked me, I made retreat with my catapults. After 18 turns, crazy Russia broke the treaty (declaring war on me) and had basically no units left to fight with.

Then I made an alliance with Rome to keep the war going, and Russia's cities was easy to take. One of them had two spearmen and an archer, one had only one spearman and the others had two spearmen.

Even though it took 18 turns and I had a slightly larger army than I needed, I don't think I lost too many turns. Without the pre-war against Rome, I would've faced more Russian resistance and would've needed that big army anyway.

The Mayan Javelin Throwers generate an enormous amount of workers, so I didn't have to build any more.

 

[Theov]

I'm much closer to Russia than Rome, so I think that almost all of Russia's spare units would've attacked me instead of Rome. I declared war on Rome instead. The few Roman units that attacked me, I made retreat with my catapults. After 18 turns, crazy Russia broke the treaty (declaring war on me) and had basically no units left to fight with.

Then I made an alliance with Rome to keep the war going, and Russia's cities was easy to take. One of them had two spearmen and an archer, one had only one spearman and the others had two spearmen.

Even though it took 18 turns and I had a slightly larger army than I needed, I don't think I lost too many turns. Without the pre-war against Rome, I would've faced more Russian resistance and would've needed that big army anyway.

The Mayan Javelin Throwers generate an enormous amount of workers, so I didn't have to build any more.

You shouldn't worry about the Russian units. You have cats and Javelin Throwers. On hills.

Did the Scandinavians do anything?

 

[Theov]

My win is in the spoiler - it only shows the win stats... It's a Domination Victory, which kicked in after the culture-land-boost of the Temple of Artemis.

Spoiler :

View attachment smokejax.bmp

 

[ahman]

I reached the domination victory before 0 AD. I built some Settlers and used the (dead) russian workers to fill upp the 2 lost population points. And in some cities, I used the workers to rush a Temple for 2 population. Of course, when I got the victory condition, most cities were a mess...

The Maya's enslaving Javelin Thrower is very valuable. 1/3 chance of getting a slave is like getting 6.67 food points for every fight won. Converted to shields, 1-to-1, that's a third of a catapult or another Javelin Thrower. Exponential growth!

 

[Theov]

I reached the domination victory before 0 AD. I built some Settlers and used the (dead) russian workers to fill upp the 2 lost population points. And in some cities, I used the workers to rush a Temple for 2 population. Of course, when I got the victory condition, most cities were a mess...

The Maya's enslaving Javelin Thrower is very valuable. 1/3 chance of getting a slave is like getting 6.67 food points for every fight won. Converted to shields, 1-to-1, that's a third of a catapult or another Javelin Thrower. Exponential growth!

played a few games with the JT and it's truly a thing of beauty. You build the start of your empire, find an opponent, trade techs, attack him and enslave a few guys in the process. You build you infrastructure back as it should be when you would've built workers instead of JT and you have the opponent's cities to beat.