Starting Biases

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by s0nny80y, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    If you set two biases, only the first one works. That's documented in the XML files.
     
  2. Sirian

    Sirian Designer, Mohawk Games

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    There isn't enough Marsh for it to dominate a region -- at least not on any of the Firaxis maps.

    Approx 8% of grass tiles turn to marsh. For there to be more than about ten plots of Marsh on a Standard sized map is rare. They are usually clustered in to patches of several, though. (And any Sugar in Jungle turn the tile in to Marsh).

    If a request to place a civ near Marsh had crossed my desk, it would have been doable. But "doable" still has to interact with a particular map instance and fit in with all the other bias needs. I would have had to create a new Regional category called Marsh, and then I would have had to give any Marsh regions a second rating as whatever they would otherwise have been -- so we don't lose functionality in the process. It would have been a little bit tricky and sucked up time away from doing other things.

    A mod to add this could be done if somebody cared enough to do all that work. But the likely outcome would be very little change. Start points wouldn't get moved at all, so the odds of one happening to plop down near the marsh are very low. Marsh is bad terrain, so start points would generally try to avoid being near a bunch of it.


    A better answer might be to fudge the tiles. When Netherlands is in the game, and with their grass bias, just add enough Marsh near their capital (or even in their region) to reach the desired amount. This wouldn't be any less work than the start bias method, although it would be a steeper challenge -- but it would have better results. The start bias doesn't fiddle with the map, just decides which civs to put in which spots. Where the spots exist is determined by how the map divides, not by what biases come with the civs who are playing.

    There is no example to follow, though. Fudging terrain for only one civ type would require a fully customized intervention. If anyone besides me knows enough about the map generation system to pull that off in a reasonable time frame, I would be impressed -- and wonder they haven't done more map modding and map scripting. :lol:


    - Sirian
     
  3. isnorden

    isnorden Amnesiac Modder

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    :bump:

    For what it's worth, Sweden has no official starting-location bias--except on maps that were designed to copy real-life geography as closely as possible. However, my first "original" mod (not based on another player's) solves that problem; I was tired of seeing Stockholm get built in jungles or deserts, and decided to do something about it. Here's the link to the download center--

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19947


    If you'd prefer the Steam Workshop's mod browser, the same mod is available here--

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=86337997
     
  4. JA_Lamb

    JA_Lamb Warlord

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    Does this actually work?
     
  5. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    I wholeheartedly agree. The starting biases are there for a reason. What good is a land-locked Polynesia? Why would you deny mountain-related bonuses to the Inca? Turning off the starting biases only helps the player and hampers the AI (or terrain-reliant Civ players in multiplayer).
     
  6. JA_Lamb

    JA_Lamb Warlord

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    I read your XML, I repeat, does this actually work? As in my experience, I did a rough original file mod and defined starting positions for all Civs and it does not. Not on the first or subsequent reshuffles of the map.

    It is annoying because I want to increase the cost of traversing Desert, Tundra and Snow to 2 moves like Hills, that's easy and already done.

    Then the desert people like the Egyptians, arabs etc. get a "gift" promo of an extra move in deserts, likewise the Northerns, Russians and Germans extra move in Tundra, no one gets a Snow Promo.

    It's then balanced by the Ocean Starting Civs having cheap Sea Buildings etc.

    But unless the Starting positions are guaranteed to start within 80% of requirements, then the mods are like starting the Iroquis and Aztecs in Deserts. No good to man or beast!!!

    I wish Sirian (Bob Thomas) had not made such a good job of pre-shuffling or had given the player a choice to shuffle or allow historical like starts.
     
  7. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    And Polynesia starts on the coast.
     
  8. iconocast

    iconocast Prince

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    also as a side effect of the start bias ive noticed is that, say u start near Forrest or tundra, u will see deer to be quite common etc. as well as u know if u go russia u might be best of using the tundra pantheon, a pantheon that while being pretty specialised is still quite good and u know no one else is likely to get it
     
  9. Big_Daddy

    Big_Daddy Chieftain

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    the start bias is just that - a bias, not set in stone.

    Also, in my observation, the game is more accommodating to start biases for AI players than for human players, especially at higher skill levels.

    dontcha love being Rome with no Iron?
    or Greece with no horses?

    I don't know if it's truly an intentional factor, but sometimes I'd swear the denial of UU by resource deprivation is part of the difficulty level.
     
  10. isnorden

    isnorden Amnesiac Modder

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    I've just released version 2 of "Sweden Starting Location"; it's available only on the forums for now, since ModBuddy keeps crashing on my PC.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19947


    What's changed this time?

    1. Added snow to the list of favored terrain types.
    2. Added a "start along ocean" bias, since Stockholm is a coastal city.


    Enjoy!
     

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