Starting city, chop first or improve tiles?

jblazer

Chieftain
Joined
May 12, 2012
Messages
25
I'm a monarch player and I've always gone worker>worker>settler. Then BW first for chopping.

Making sure my worker is standing in the forest ready to chop the turn BW finishes (I put hammers into settler if BW is taking longer to get)

Is this the best strategy or not? because I watched TheMeInTeam let's play civilization videos on youtube and he improves tiles first... and picks up agriculture/work boats/animal hus..etc

So question is when do I expand a second city right away and when do I improve tiles right away?
 
Worker - worker - settler used to be possibly the strongest strategy. Then they nerfed chop hammers from 30:hammers: to 20:hammers: per tree chopped; now it's one of the weaker ones generally.

The right opening is situational, but here's some guidelines I would give.
-Never go settler-first unless you're Imperialistic, and usually not even then.
-Never go warrior first unless (a) your starting worker would have literally nothing to do, (b) you're planning on worker-stealing, or (c) you're planning on warrior rushing someone.
-Worker-first should be your default; it's generally the right move.

After you have your worker, you usually want to grow your city a bit. Whether you grow to size 2, 3, or 4 is going to depend on the tiles your city has available - with 3 corn and a copper, you probably grow to size 4. With a plainscow and a dry rice, you'll be expanding earlier because growing will just take too long. The simplest choice is to just build warriors until you hit the size you want, then immediately switch to your next build. If you're planning an axe rush or a chariot rush, this is also a chance to start work on a barracks which you'll finish after you get the settler out. You usually don't need a second worker before your settler if you've taken the time to improve some tiles and grow your city a bit first. But if you're an IMP leader, you might want the extra chops so you can get the hammer multiplier going towards the settler instead of spending the chops on a worker.

Probably the most common opening for me is worker - warriors (to size 3) - settler - worker, or worker - warriors (to size 4) - settler - worker.

Opening worker-worker is only worth considering on heavily-forested starts in which your capital has just one or two good tiles to work, and a lot of average or bad ones.

Worker-settler is worth considering only if you're really desperate to get a specific city site - if your starting warrior scout reveals something truly alarming about the map which indicates you might have to do that. Even then you often want to grow to size-2 first.

Coastal starts throw all bets off; they're complicated. When and how many fishing boats you get is going to depend a lot on what other tiles and what techs you have; that in turn impacts when you get your workers, warriors, and settlers. Maybe someone who doesn't regularly mess them up (like I do) could give you more detailed advice.

Oh - and welcome to the forums! :cheers:
 
Welcome to CivFanatics! :band:

There is no simple answer to your question. I often realize (too late) that it would be better just chop instead of mining/cottagging/even farming food resources.

Improving tiles first is a good idea, unless you need to block some land before your neighbor captures all good city spots.

If there is heavy competition for the land (imperialistic neighbor), you'd better start settler when your capital is size 2, which in turn might force you to chop aggressively because you lucking improved tiles and need workers asap.

All this is very situation dependent, post a save or screen?

Edit: cross post with Coanda.
 
Worker worker was more popular in warlords, because:
- AI got much larger starting bonuses, so racing for a good second city was a big del
- AI was worse at defending rushes, so axe rushes were better (and copper may have been more common)
 
That is a very bad opening as people have said. It stagnates your growth a lot. By going worker warrior warrior worker settler you can grow to 4-6 depending on your food, and get a settler out faster.
 
I think it's almost always worth going worker first, improving your best three tiles while building two warriors and training a settler at pop 3. You can throw in a chop if you have the worker turns and have teched BW already, but you should still get a second city settled by 2400 BC, which is fine unless you're really boxed in. Then, like Coanda said, get another worker, grow again on a warrior and build your next settler at pop 4.
 
What hasn't been mentioned yet: there are good reasons to grow your city

a) Whip - it's the most powerful source of production in the earlygame by far
b) Work more good tiles - especially if you start with 6food resources. You might get your first settler out quicker with your strategy, but everything else (more workers, units, 2nd settler, library, great people) will be delayed alot.
c) you might want to save chops for other things, like wonders or units
d) Usually your capital will be the #1 science/commerce city in your empire - it's usually good advice to grow some cottages in your capital, and the earlier you begin growing them the greater the benefit from Bureaucracy.
e) every point above combined leads to: you're more flexible in your opening and can react to what the game throws at you - be it certain leaders, barbs, the need to adjust your strategy and alike.
 
If have seafood and Fishing tech than Work Boat -> Settler -> Worker (start on plain hill cost (once had stone too, that was awesome)+ forested plain hill for start hammers for Work Boat + coast fish is best start can have and than I'm available running 2nd city around 3000 BC on Mara speed)
Just some other situational idea of game :)
 
If have seafood and Fishing tech than Work Boat -> Settler -> Worker (start on plain hill cost (once had stone too, that was awesome)+ forested plain hill for start hammers for Work Boat + coast fish is best start can have and than I'm available running 2nd city around 3000 BC on Mara speed)
Just some other situational idea of game :)

... and won't have a worker to improve any tiles. Unless you're about to get boxed in that's not a clever opening, especially as it'll delay pretty much every other part of your game alot. Not to mention that you'll have a pretty good chance to a) either lose the settler to a barb or b) won't be able to settle the spot because barbs roam there.
 
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