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starting first war for domination using infantry

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by christopher1234, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    Usually i begin domination victory wars at the point that i get cannons.This route really slows down research and the economy,because at that point i aint finished building things like Oxford etc.Once i gain one or two vassals my research is wayyyyyyyyyy behind and constantly playing catch up is now boring.

    If any body has any expirience begininning war around the Industrial era please share your expiriences and lessons learnt,i will be very much grateful.
     
  2. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    by the way i play on immortal level,and epic spead.
     
  3. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    Any particular reason why you start fighting so late? The AI bonuses get bigger as the time era advances. The earlier you get that first vassal or two the better (indirectly getting the AI bonus through your vassals). Waiting until the later eras to start conquest means you fight bigger bonuses making it harder to keep up techwise (eventually falling way behind). Cuir/Cav conquest usually ends the game long before any of the AIs can even field rifles.
     
  4. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    waiting for infantry could mean you will never catch up.

    it really depends. If you somehow already sit at ~15 cities I think you could wait for infantries if there is no clear runaway, but if it's tight with you having 6 cities and couple AI's having 9-10 and some runnaway, you will realize you go just too late.

    As was said, the AI gets bonuses the later game goes, so you need to balance the point at which you can strike and not going broke.

    usually it means cuirs/cannons warfare.
     
  5. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    Oh well,i guess once i win the lib race. im just gonna have to concentrate on getting a great artist for military tradition.

    By the way which if any great person can help bulb rifling?.
     
  6. barbertje

    barbertje Prince

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    To bulb Military tradition with an artist you need to skip monarchy, or you'll bulb divine right first. This probably means you have to build the pyramids for happiness. You also need to get theology. You should not get machinery, or you'll bulb printing press.

    rifling is on the bulb list of scientists and engineers, but right at the bottom, and you'll need to tech many techs that are more expensive than rifling, before an engineer or a scientist will bulb it.
     
  7. PeteJ

    PeteJ Warlord

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    You can bulb part of printing press with a scientist and you can bulb part of replaceable parts with a merchant(hopefully you'll win economics if you beeline rifling). Both of these are on the path to rifling.
     
  8. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Mostly agree. I have had games though where going with Curis or cavs just didn't seem attractive because my neighbors already had RP or rifling. In this case you can do cannons but that isn't always so attractive as well, it needs whipping for production and as such will probably hurt research. The idea of going to AL is getting up the production infra so we can field a really strong force without hurting our empire. Once the production infra is up there's a good chance we've got flight. Now Cavs/fighters and later bombers is very effective. If not Infantry/artillery is strong especially when protective. But you need a good base, 8 good cities at least and strong research. 6 cities or less needs an earlier break out.
     
  9. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    if warring later than the cannon musket/rifle period is unfeasable.then i guess im only gonna build the buildings i need library/granary/baracks plus one or two extras when needed.everything else comes after getting some land and vassals.
    if feasable i wont even bother with cottages, just farms and hammers.any cottages i get will come later through conquest.
     
  10. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    You should probably post a map (w/ savegame) and solicit advice while you play. A lot depends on the map. That would be the best way to get a feel for how you could improve your overall decision making (when to go to war and with what units).
     
  11. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I wouldn't be bulbing rifles but I would be bulbing using scientists to reach edu and lib much earlier. Don't forget Merchants can offer 900+ gold. With multipliers that can give you well over a thousand beakers in the long run.
     
  12. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    As others said, just start your wars earlier :D

    But if insist in starting it in the infantry age, just don't use infantries :devil: Infantry is a pretty lackluster unit that lacks the ability of being a can opener, slow, not strong enough vs the expected competition and with no inbuilt bonuses that are worth writing home about. You will get far better with:

    - Artilery + something with 1 move to cover for them and mop out. Rifles will do, but infantry will also be useful :D

    - Cavs + spies + airships. They will die like flies , but speed and numbers do wonders.

    - Cavs + planes . Speed trumps all and planes can soften the targets in advance. Then you can airlift CG infantries to protect them

    - Infantry + planes also works well

    - Slightly later, Paras or marines + planes

    - Nukes + paras . The fastest one , but you might not be albe or want to use nukes. Then Guided missiles en masse + paras will do
     
  13. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    take this save and tell me what you think.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    you pay fortune for units which you probably don't need

    ton of unimproved tiles worked

    183 bpt is really low not sure why is that though

    capital should not work artist and draw back the flood plains cottage to work

    the treb builds i don't understand.

    I suppose you will do Lib->nat and tech gunpowder+MT as next techs?

    the good thing is that AI's war a lot.

    seems to me like you could do better job with the map then you did in early game

    edit:

    i think you should have cottaged all riverside green tiles around capital and certainly not leave those forests there! that is ton of commerce you wasting right there.
     
  15. Heathcliff

    Heathcliff Warlord

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    Why not go all the way to tanks before you attack if you are already at infantry?
     
  16. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    yeah you are right i know that i need more workers to improve the land quicker.but as soon as i finish farming from civil service,they will improve the rest.
    the great artist is for military tradition,and i,ll push out a great scientist after that in another in 6 turns.because fredrick is philosophical.
    i know cottages should be up but i dont care much about cottages,i will conquer some rich cities during war,maybe with a religious shrine and then get wall street.right now im building trebs and units for war,as soon as i get cannons i will already have each city having built muskets.that will at least 12 muskets some maces,knights,catapults.
    so from this point im only building for war.

    by the way i play on epic speed and the improvemnets you see are about as good as it gets on this speed.the build up to lib happens so fast and its there before you know it.
     
  17. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    A few things I noticed...

    1. Not enough workers. Period.

    2. Frankfurt built a temple...and will never reach the happy cap. Could have built workers or just wealth.

    3. You don't have any commerce cities supporting the capital. 2 turns till Lib at 950 AD is slow...for philosophical leader even worse. You should aim to win Lib (MT assuming you have horses) ~500AD - 900AD depending on commerce/leader.

    4. You need to beeline whatever tech you need to start the first war. In this case MT since you have horses. You have engineering/machinery before Lib. Were these trades? Normally you trade for these techs after you win Lib unless you need to defend against a dow.

    5. Build wealth not units. Mace and such won't help a cuir army. Pre-building horse archers (to upgrade into cuir) good idea. Pop a Great Merchant for a trade mission so you can upgrade them (as well as fund 100% research).

    Still think you should start a new game, post, and discuss the opening moves. You need to refine how you approach the map. Setting up early commerce sites, gp farm(s), production sites (for whipping out units) etc. are key to overcoming the AI bonuses. Right now (in your current game) you don't have your cities ready for mass whipping. You can't outbuild the AI straight up.
     
  18. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    ok heres the save from the very beginning,what would you suggest? sip or move?

    i wont be playing again untill tomorrow afternoon,gotta get ready for work.so dont wonder if i dont reply soon.
     
  19. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    ok heres the save from the very beginning,what would you suggest? sip or move?

    i wont be playing again untill tomorrow afternoon,gotta get ready for work.so dont wonder if i dont reply soon.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I would prolly settle 1E on the silk. don't like settling on GH's generally
    great bureau capital for sure.
     

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