Starting Location

ok to show you how ridiculous decision is to settle 1W compared to the other positions I run simulation for first 40 turns with 1W

for the ones that don't want to open the save

we have 1 worker, 2 turns before we get worker 2 (all other starts have 2 cities settled, 2 workers working and on the road towards city 3 or having city 3 in one particular case)

we have 2 cities, the second city was settled T37 (compared to ~T31 of bananas)

worker is finishing road towards city 2 (but distance is a bit bigger due to worse overlap of river, so that is not that valid argument)

we have 1 cottage
 
Yeah, you right , i thing only viable solution its setling in place or bananas, evrithing else its very slow and we dont want that.
 
The primary difference being that 1W means less production in the capital, right?
Click to expand...

The diference its a very slow start, for 1W.1 hamer or 1 food wich we gain without working the tile its huge.Setling on resource wich can be improved just in 80 turns its alright becasue wahr we get its free food we dont need ro spend 2 food to gain 2 with a farm or 3 with a plantation but we gain 1 food spending any.Start on banana its faster,in place its a litle slower(not like 1w) but its the best long term.
 
Obviously we can't play it out, but how does it compare in 300+ turns (expected length of game)? That's what I don't know, nor do I know if that's even a valid question to ask. I just don't want a fast start that's crippled in the later game. And I'm a low level player, which is why I'm tossing out ideas/questions and paying attention to the answers. :mischief:
 
guys please... the spot on bananas or even in place has enough commerce tiles for first 150 turns (depends a bit on early game resources)

it's really bad to ask about size 20 capital when you for first 2/3 of game will have like size 10

actually it's good strategy to have cca size 10 capital turn 115 (1 AD) so you have some idea what we talk about

from the size 10 the banana spot will employ corn+deer, 3 hills (2x PH, 1x GH) and has 5 for commerce which can be 2x flood plain, 1 grass riverside and we can work some grass nonriverside, which is for 10 turns 2 commerce behind, but then just 1c behind (so there is difference but not tragic) or plains riverside (we have the deer for 2 plains making it grass)

the spot on bananas has enough commerce for first 150 turns... have no doubts about this

come T150-170 (depending on map) we could start to talk about ~15 cities and the value of burea start to diminish

btw when we're at it, for first 3 cities we will use heavy overlap where secondary cities will prepare grown cottages for capital once hapiness kicks in
 
vranasm said:
for first 3 cities we will use heavy overlap
Click to expand...
This is definitely true, as we need to keep maintenance down, maximize use of available resources/power tiles, and don't forget the desert to the north and it looks like tundra to the south. We may need to think about squeezing 4 or even 5 cities into the visible land as we may not have much good land nearby, depending on the map. At least its not looking promising from what can be seen in the fog.
 
I usualy aim for a 14-16 capital size by 1 ad even that means stuffing the city with MP defenders and planting on place will gave us alot of riverside to work for a riverside burocracy.Even the benefit of burocracy disapear the benefit of oxford university and academy its still there so lets not dismiss the ideea of a very strong capitol.

Planting on banana doenst actualy add food to capitol, but make us to plant second city 2 turns faster get some cotages faster but we will have just 2 floodplains cottages compared with 4 on place.
 
I'm leaning a bit towards settling in place. Mainly because in place would make an awesome commerce capital especially when running bureaucracy. Plains hills is my second choice. That would give us better production and we could rush an early wonder if we'd want one. Of course I agree that we must first move the warrior and only then decide.

BTW, deciding city placement after warrior move means we'll have to reach consensus quite fast after the movement (well within 24 h cycle). Any ideas how to achieve that so that the opinions can be heard?
 
I have a thought on that... Out of the CFC "Senators" (that's all of us;)) who have spoken up about 1st city location, many have said they already prefer the ph start. So what the warrior finds won't (or shouldn't) affect that. The only effect will be to convince someone who does not want the ph start to want it.

So I would say anyone who does not want the ph start should say what we could possibly discover in the fog that would change his mind. If they say "nothing will change my mind about ph start" then what we discover doesent matter a wit, and we can measure consensus based on what people are already saying. If they say something like "2 gold mines in the fog will make we want to settle over there near the gold mines", then we wait to see if there are gold mines, and if not we know what to do. If there are 2 gold mines :eek:, then we have 24 hours to comment and if consensus isnt clear, let the Turnplayer decide. That's my thought.

Speaking of which, who is our opening Turnplayer? I vote for (in no particular order):

1. 2metra
2. cavscout
3. bistrita
 
gems/gold for city settled on warrior standing PH, otherwise no reason to move further since SIP / bananas have good food, hammers and commerce will come with cottages
 
To re-cap, the starts we have discussed are:

Banana: Popular
ph: Popular
In place: some support
1W: some support
Southern hill: unpopular

Based on this, I would say folks should really start voicing a clear commitment to either Banana or ph, so the Turnplayer can make a well informed decision. The time for wishy-washy:undecide: time is over.

Following my own advice. I say Banana, (based primarily on bistrita and vranasm's comments/tests), unless there is some really good commerce resource(s) in the fog. Settle right in the middle of the visible land and then settle all around in a close packed star-formation for max tile usage.
 
Based on the edges of those tiles I doubt the warrior is going to find anything. I'm guessing that plains hill with the warrior on it has iron or copper.

I know some people are vehemently opposed to settling 1W because it doesn't give us the extra :hammers: or :food:

So it seems like a good compromise is to settle in place. The extra :hammers: + river + defensive bonus (hill and river crossing) makes it more attractive to me than the extra :food: from the banana spot.
 
Great discussion going on here! Unlike my constantly changing opinion on leader, though, I'm still sticking with PH as the best start. 1W or SIP would be very bad options, imho. Banana would not be bad at all, but I still think PH is better.

These are the votes as far as I can tell (please correct me if I have your vote wrong):

ph: 3, or 4?(YossarianLives (bananas as 2nd choice), bowsling, socralynnek, Jovan Kukic?)
1W: 2, or 3? (talonschild, cav scout, whb?)
Banana: 2 (vranasm (SIP as 2nd choice), Sommerswerd)
In place: 2(Aivoturso (PH as 2nd choice), bistrita)
Southern hill: 0
 
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