1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Starting Luxuries Tier List

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by ShadedSkies, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. ShadedSkies

    ShadedSkies Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Because not all goodies are made equal. Based on Deity Huge maps, and on your starting monopoly (most starts have three luxuries nearby, two of which are duplicates and usually have a monopoly within range. The third luxury type is just there for variety.)

    S Tier
    Pearls (Best boat resource. Free early religion, tech passes by Pottery which every civ wants as fast as possible, a very useful early boost to culture for Progress/Authority starts, boats are awesome because the instant improvement lets you sell your luxuries for more gold to buy more work boats with and thus activate your monopoly much sooner than any other. Also god of the sea is broken and you get two 2f2g tiles within range on the first turn.)

    Coral (Free early religion, two 2f1p2g tiles on the first turn, 2 science per resource on like turn 40. It does everything, except culture, unless you go Progress at which point it does that too. Compared to pearls it lags a bit in the culture/faith department though because of how insanely fast you get a monopoly with both.)

    A Tier
    Cinnamon (Best plantation resource. Crazy culture output, good tech route that synergizes with Markets which every city wants as fast as possible anyway and adds 1f1p, plus Markets go well with the renewal pantheon. Send workers to cut down the jungle before you settle the city. If a bunch of them end up on forest tiles they're F tier. Don't even think about getting the Herbalist unless you have like 4 in range.)

    Cocoa (Cinnamon but +1f and no Market boost. After Market is in place they're just a strictly worse Cinnamon. Still, 3f1p1g is a sick starting tile. Garden boost is irrelevant, especially with HG rush.)

    Coffee (It's like an improvable Library that you get half an era earlier. Monopoly is probably the best out of the % bonuses but really only becomes relevant after the game is probably already decided. Gets a minor production boost at the bottom of the goddamn Renassiance tree. The only reason for iron working warmongers to rush calender.)

    Whales (It's like half an improvable Library, but at sea and boats are awesome.)

    Marble (Best quarry resource. Construction is a very awkward tech but the wonder bonus and stone works boost makes up for it. If you get lucky with stones and pick that weird quarry-monument pantheon you can even run away with it. Good luck getting that monopoly.)

    Jade (Marble but with culture. Culture is decidedly less awesome once you have Construction, and if you rushed Construction and didn't find any horses you have bigger problems. GA monopoly is always nice but no gamechanger.)

    Citrus (Cinnamon/Cocoa hybrid with good yields but science instead of culture. Still worse than both.)

    Silver (Best mine resource. Has the insane +2c monopoly bonus and can be improved after 1 tech and doesn't end up on forest tiles. Gets ludicrously good with the awkwardly placed yet very very powerful Forge. Still, working a 0f tile that early is painful and the tech route to Forge doesn't give you much in the way of infrastructure. Mining is just a wasted tech for anything except improving Silver or getting a Well in your capital. Gets 1g1p1c from Banks but who cares?)

    Tea (Hey, imagine if you rushed Calender instead of Iron Working/Construction and actually got a bunch of production anyway? That's tea. Probably the best non-oceanic luxury in the game if you've got your culture/science/faith bases covered. What can I say? Things just go well with tea starts.)

    B Tier

    Furs (Best camp resource. These things are SS tier if you picked the god of the hunt pantheon, since they give 2c1f. And they're still pretty solid overall thanks to the extra culture, easily the best tech route and actually being on forest tiles that don't need the chop. Gets 1p from the Herbalist which is probably not worth it. Extra gold and production from Caranvansary which does not make up for the fact that you just built a Caravansary. 6 happiness monopoly is very useful for early warmongers and not very useful for anything else.)

    Crab (The worst aquatic lux. If you're coastal you don't really need the extra food thanks to lighthouses and internal trade routes. Boats are still awesome and god of the sea is still broken so B tier. They're basically fish.)

    Dyes (2c improvement without weird pantheons!!! Yeah, you're still working a 2f0p tile after you've hit calender, chopped down the jungle and built a plantation, which is not a good idea. Cities constantly need to grow and build stuff and thus need food and hammers. But 2c is still tempting so do it anyway and hope the AI doesn't laugh at your weak little cities. 3c after amphitheatres which is, uh, OK I guess? Faith of the masses is good so that's a bonus.)

    Lapis Lauzuli (4p2s? Yes please! Probably the only reason to rush Construction unless you just so happen to feel lucky regarding the placement of the stones. Doesn't get boosted by stone works which is a shame, but gets 2c from amphitheatres which is significantly better than what Dyes get. Still a 0f tile which means your cities will be like 3 pop in the Renaissance unless you're sending internal trade routes, that probably want to go somewhere else.)

    Incense (Actually really good if it spawns on flood plains and really awful if it spawns on plain desert. Guess where it tends to spawn? If you think 0f or 0p tiles are bad, try 0f0p tiles on for size. I'm being a little too harsh on it; any bit of faith is great and culture is always a necessity, and the 3f monopoly can land you a religion which automatically makes it absolutely vital in some games. But even I would hesitate working multiple 0f0p tiles, even for a religion. Still not getting a religion after doing this is known to cause mild depression.)

    Wine (Incense but doesn't spawn in desert and doesn't give 1f on improvement. Still gives 2f monopoly which makes improving it a must, even if it doesn't do much else.)

    Gold (Silver but you get half the culture twice as fast. Culture is good and mines are good so gold is good, though probably not as urgent as other luxuries. Gets 3g from Banks which is lol.)

    C Tier

    Sugar (Cinnamon but worse Market boost and a far worse monopoly bonus. Good turn 1 yields but it's all downhill from there.)

    Salt (A mine tile with food yields? Heresy! These bad boys turn pretty mean after a stone work and forge is in place, both great early buildings, yet no culture makes it less valuable than the rest of the mines. Well maybe not all of them but we'll get to that.)

    Truffles (Lots of gold, lots of food after monopoly, not much else. Since all luxuruies give gold when sold and farms give food they're not that exciting. Again, very good with the right pantheon, though decidedly less so than its vulpine cousins, unless you're not improving tiles for some insane reason.)

    Tobacco (Gimped Wine with gold instead of culture, but 2f monopoly makes it potentially vital. You really don't want to work these tiles after you found a religion and get a missionary out the door, even after the Grocer gives it a whopping +2g or something.)

    Olive (Weird culture-improved arena-boosted luxury which gives a bit of food and culture and then more lategame food modifiers. Yawn.)

    Cotton/Perfume (Basically identical aside from their boost building, of which Perfume is probably better since all cities need arenas but rarely in a timely manner, after which these yields aren't too groundbreaking. Anyway, you like gold? Well too bad because a +3g monopoly isn't even that much. Unnotable aside from the improved culture yield, but working a 0p tile for 1c is probably not worth it.)

    Silk (So we went from Coffee to Dyes and here we are at the very bottom. No culture. No faith. No food. No production. No science. Only saving grace is 2f1p2g on turn 1 and the +10% culture boost which it shares with the notoriously difficult Marble monopoly and aformentioned Tea, but I think this is the textbook definition of "stuff you don't want near your capital unless you hate the idea of improving tiles". Still, no unforested plantation is lower than C tier.)

    D Tier
    Amber (Highest yields out of any unimproved non-vegetated/oceanic tile. Improved it only gets more gold which is lame. Culture from Temples is pretty pointless but at least Temples are a good midgame building.)

    Copper (Mines and Forges yield more gold now for some reason. Because that's what I want when I put down a mine.)

    Ivory (Look at those plains yields, goddamn. 1f2p, it's as bad as a forest tile! Trapping is a great tech though and with the right pantheon you can make them pretty strong, but don't let anyone catch you working these things otherwise. Circus gives a late but massive 3c bonus which makes it worth building but not rushing. Honestly I've never seen war elephants make much of a splash considering their absurd cost and awkward tech tree placement, but I guess that's the point.)

    Gems (So Silver has everything, Gold has fast culture, and even Salt gets some food. What does Gems get? Nothing. If not for trading you might as well be improving a basic hill. The 1st World Congress has begun, spies are pulling off coups and Gems finally, FINALLY gets that superb 2c1g from Banks. Totally worth it!)

    F(orest) Tier
    Forest anything except Dyes (Insanely awful tech route that requires you going bronze working before you can even start to do anything with the tile and then calender to improve it. Luxuries can be settled on in desperation in case you have enough jungle tiles to almost get the monopoly, and can still be worked unimproved for the tile yield monopolies.)

    Forest Dyes (The worst luxury in the game because unimproved the base yield is trash so settling on it doens't do anything and the monopoly bonus isn't even good in the first place.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    Mirosha, CrazyG, Randomized and 2 others like this.
  2. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,781
    Location:
    Beijing
    I don't think Crab is B tier. Even with God of the Sea they aren't that great, they require spending a lot of production to connect, from cities that tend to be production light. If you miss God of the Sea it's one of the hardest starting positions to get out of. I would much rather be on Salt or Copper.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  3. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    756
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indiana
    I wouldn't put Copper down in D Tier because of it's +10% Production Monopoly bonus. I would say you are overlooking the benefit of having the bonus Yields on the Forge: that is 2 bonuses for Copper on 1 Building. It's B tier to me.

    I find it strange that you think Tea is A and Salt is C tier. Maybe not since you seem to think highly of early Culture. They give similar Yields in Food and Production and Salt gets its Buildings earlier: Stone Works vs Grocer. It does take more investment and lacks early Culture that Silver and Gold provide.

    The only good thing I would say about Tobacco is that it lets me delay Markets and not have GPT issues in Ancient Era.

    Dyes are an A tier to me. They give 2/3 Culture, when improved, a Yield that is hard to get otherwise this early.
     
    JamesNinelives and CrazyG like this.
  4. andersw

    andersw King

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    sweden
    I think its very situational depending on map, civ, and belief and wide vs tall ... but around capital and the very early cities ....
    1. Marble, settle on top and choose a few early wonders that are now almost garantueed, if you havent tested this you've missed something, its a very strong opening.
    2. Mining lux, because that means extra hammers, the early gold many provide is much needed.
    3. Furs are ok and tea isnt horrible for plantation.
    4. Quarry lux, atleast provides hammers, jade is prob my fav. (maybe swaps place with 3.)
    5. Fish lux are good if I go god of the sea, even better as Denmark who wants to prio that techpath, otherwise I'd rather skip those techs early on.
    Cant settle on top is another drawback.
    6. I find plantations in general to be rather crap, they are on second tech line and compared to quarry lux doesnt provide hammers and often requires removal of jungle/forest which makes them very worker intensive.
    Plantation lux also means I probably have mostly flatland around, boo.
    If I have a really forest/jungle heavy start I want god of renewal but if it also comes with plantation lux I then have to get rid of the forest/jungle, boo.
    Later plantations are a bit better (and some monopolys are really strong) especially if I get them in conquered land but I dont want it near my start, I have olives in my current game and its soo soo bad.
     
  5. Voremonger

    Voremonger Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    This list is not very useful without specifying what strategies you're normally using and how you are defining tiers.
    For the games I'm playing the tier list would look very different because I'm playing very aggressively from the very start.

    I also think you are overrating early game culture yields.
    While getting more Policies early on is very useful it is also difficult to maintain an advantage due to rubber band mechanics.
     
    Maxxim69, JamesNinelives and Teholb like this.
  6. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    I'll say that most of your tier list depends on thew strategy you're going for, and what civ you're beginning with, as @Voremonger said.

    However, I completely agree that Forest Plantations are absolutely a no-go when playing on any difficulty above Prince, or when playing MP. I wish this would be changed, as having to get to Bronze Working in addition to Calendar is awful.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  7. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    6,158
    I think people overestimate the drain on forest plantations. They tend to give wonderful starting bonuses, I love when my capital gets near a few of these. Then, you can compensate with a few extra workers...so that by the time you can cultivate them you can get them operational quicker.

    Ultimately I agree they are a bit weaker overall but I don't consider them "no go" status.


    As far as the list, the only one that struck me was Salt. I love getting salt personally, easier to terraform and provides all the bonuses I need to get a city growing and producing.
     
  8. Voremonger

    Voremonger Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    Forest Plantations can work quite well depending on your strategy and the map.
    If you're being aggressive in the early game (Archers, Immortals, Jaguar Warriors, etc.) then the difference compared to Jungle Plantations is rather small I think.
    In that case you're researching Bronze Working anyways and/or you are getting your first Worker relatively late.
     
  9. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Well yes, of course they give nice bonuses. I understand that the yields are supposed to be proportionate to the tech investment, but they require a huge upfront investment to even get started compared with other luxes. By the time my first forest lux is worked, competitors have or nearly have a monopoly. Early yields equate to early snowballing, imo. I play side by side in a LAN setup, and it's very easy to see when there is an imbalance.

    Getting extra workers does not negate the fact that you have to have five separate techs, two of which are not the basic first tier techs. With the four population requirement for the first settler, and with pottery not in line to Calendar, it's an extremely slow start. Pyramids can help mitigate this somewhat, but in that case it feels like I am forced to take Pyramids to be competitive, and if I'm not going for a GP game, that isn't optimal long term.
     
  10. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    I see that as a problem for non-authority plays. Yes, it's viable in certain cases, but if the idea is that one must choose a very specific playstyle due to starting conditions, it doesn't seem so great for any civ not equipped for early warmongering.
     
  11. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    299
    Gender:
    Male
    I find salt on hills not flat lands or desert starts pretty tempting, i would always work a 2:c5food: 3:c5production: production tile that gets better as the game goes.
    I kinda have to disagree with the whole plantation argument, it's actually one of my personal favorite starts when it's combined with jungles .... when i get one i usually delay settling a little bit, beeline calendar and go all in for temple of Artemis that will get production boosts from chopped jungles anyway and i almost always get it in emperor difficulty and after that things get really amazing for working these :c5food: heavy tiles with some :c5production: as well, extra points for getting the plantation pantheon which allows you to skip shrines and libraries all together and build a herbalist to found a religion as early as turn 90~100.
    Bananas, a bonus resource can also spawn in jungles on hill which is another small bonus.
    all of this gets even better if you are playing as Indonesia that will naturally give you more plantation tiles to work or Rome with 3rd/4th uniques that will grant some of your plantations :c5culture:, gets you another good tile to work at the cost of 2 more worker turns to improve.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  12. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives King

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    907
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    I'd love to contribute, but I've never played Deity so I'm not really sure how relevant my experiences are :|.

    I agree that copper should absolutely be high, and for my war elephants are really pretty dope.

    IMO waiting until fishing boats to improve your luxuries is a pain (and having to build one for each resource). I also find that sometimes it's harder to get a maratime monopoly because the resources are spread along a stretch of coast (and sometimes another continent/little islands), whereas land resources tend to be more centralised.

    Gold and furs are both exceptional IMO, because of ease of improving and great early yields. Furs monopoly is also very nice early-game :).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  13. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    299
    Gender:
    Male
    This is an example of why i think plantation luxuries in general are not that bad combined with springtime pantheon and a beelined temple of Artemis can push you way ahead of your neighbors with the right start. Standard continents emperor difficulty 8 civs 16 :c5citystate:
    Chopping off 3 jungles early on will provide between 60-90 :c5production: which almost guarantees you a timely temple, the pantheon gives the free herbalist 2 :c5science: and :c5faith: which makes it both a shrine and a library while providing a variable amount of :c5production: depending on how many plantations you have, with 4 bananas and 2 cocoa in the capital alone this was a big push with +6 :c5production:.
    in this particular match i managed to found a religion before Spain on T90 with The great altar founder, Prophecy enhancer so i get prophets faster and Holy land reformation guaranteed me total control of world congress.
    4 of the 5 religions were founded in my continent and i control 3 of the 4 holy cities.
    I did not end up completing this game; as you see it's renaissance era and i have pretty much won the game after eliminating Korea, forcing Alexander and Napoleon to capitulate and razing some of Spain's cities while the other continent was just so far behind in everything.
    Spoiler :


     
  14. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,781
    Location:
    Beijing
    Did you build 3 workers before unlocking calendar?
     
  15. azum4roll

    azum4roll King

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    621
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a lot of bananas. I've never seen that many grouped together.
     
    bigcat88 and JamesNinelives like this.
  16. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    299
    Gender:
    Male
    Built one, bought one and got one from progress social policy.
    If i'm hurting for hammers i usually chop the jungles first before improving the plantation to get the temple first, it usually delays settling by roughly 10 turns but it never really back fired on me, at least not in emperor.

    Continents map spawn a lot of bananas actually and some of them are on hills so that's actually a good incentive to work these tiles early on.
     
    JamesNinelives and CrazyG like this.
  17. Randomized

    Randomized Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Ireland
    I LOVE tea no matter what civ I am or what strategy I'm going for. The production is amazing early on, and the +10% culture is decent mid and late game. On top of that they always spawn without forest or jungle, which goes a long way toward offsetting the fact that you need three techs to improve them. Every time I get tea as my monopoly my early game goes so smoothly.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  18. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    1,812
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    Best Rating:
    Mine luxuries, cause you can improve them immidiatly and the forge is an early building improving all of them greatly.
    Gems and Gold are both very good, cause they give percentual modifiers as monopoly and unlock the in my eyes best corporation, civilized jewelers. Copper gives a strong production modifier and is double improved by the forge, salt can be improved also 2 times by forge and stone works and gives a food modifier as monopoly (and I love growth).
    Also in my personal top rating, tea. A ton of hammers in the very early stage is great, and the culture modifier is good in mid to late game, great package. Sugar is nice too, cause its fast improved by the market and gives also a food modifier.
    The only good ocean luxury which would make it in my top rating, are whales. Science as yield is something I always lack in the early game, and a +10% science modifier is awesome in late game, especially with imperialism doubling it.

    Mid Pack:
    The forest luxuries are in the mid, cause their yields and monopolies are not that awesome, but their pure yields are nice and the herbalist and workshop boost them too.
    Incene and wine are nice, cause they give you culture and enables you to pick a faith low pantheon, which would lead to great yields but no religion otherwise.
    Lapis Lazuli and Jade are good luxuries, cause they give culture and lead to longer GA, but are unfortunatly quarry improvements, which need often a long time to get online.
    Coffee with its production modifier as monopoly and the TwoKay Food corporation is nice too.

    Bottom:
    Kinda all "gold" plantations, like cotton, dies, silk, tobacco and especially parfume. Parfume end in the hexxon refinery corporation, which is in my eyes completly useless and lead to an immidiatly restart from my side.
     
    bigcat88 likes this.
  19. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives King

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    907
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    I've heard you say this before, now I kind of want to play a perfume monopoly game just to make it work ^^.
     
    BiteInTheMark likes this.
  20. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,781
    Location:
    Beijing
    An instant restart is a bit of an overreaction, don't you think? It is quite easy to get a second monopoly before corporations if you really want it. The game can be won without corporations too.
     
    JamesNinelives, vyyt and saamohod like this.

Share This Page