Starting my first immortal game

[Cheps]

Hey guys,

Time for me to move from emperor to immortal (or at least try). Rolled a pangea map with random leader and I got Suleiman, with this interesting start:



My starting techs are agriculture and the wheel... Building a worker is 15 turns. Teching fishing is 6 turns, AH 13 turns, mining + BW 26 turns. So what's the best option here?

- worker first, mining -> BW -> fishing, worker would irrigate corn, then build roads waiting for BW, then chop fishing boats
- warrior first, fishing -> mining -> BW, once fishing is discovered build fishing boat with plain hill, then make a worker

Anyway, I don't want to spend too many hammers on fishing boats before I get settler and second worker. Actually, maybe I should skip fishing at first, since with corn + 3 hills to mine I could have a nice production at pop 4, ignoring seafood.

Also I put AH out of the equation for now, because researching it is 13 turns to improve a single plain sheep. If I don't find bronze I will get AH fast though.

Any comments/advice?

 

[Shaandore]

Hi!

I just moved up to immortal myself. I would suggest worker first definitely with riverside wet corn. You can keep the worker busy with roads until BW and after BW is in it can chop WBs, workers and settlers.

Tech: mining->BW and then rethink. If there is no copper, you might want to go for archery.

 

[lymond]

Mining>BW seems the way to go here. Worker won't be able to improve anything other than corn for a while, but at least you have the wheel. I might skip fishing indefinitely, although it does provide a bit of commerce. Ultimately, the chopping will help you a lot here, especially with an IMP leader.

 

[Solyaris]

fishing -> mining -> BW

Worker first, grow to 2, work plain hill + corn while building workboat. Build 3 workboats and wipp settler after BW at size 4. Worker buzzy with roads untill BW, then chop chop chop. Use the advantage of many forests while you still got it

A save file would be nice

 

[Mylene]

- worker first, mining -> BW -> fishing, worker would irrigate corn, then build roads waiting for BW, then chop fishing boats

- warrior first, fishing -> mining -> BW, once fishing is discovered build fishing boat with plain hill, then make a worker

First one sounds like the best possible way, 2nd like the worst
I normally consider 2 workers when teching BW first, they will be very useful cos you also want some mines.
Fishing for catching up with growth seems reasonable after BW, if you build 2 workers.

 

[Revent]

First way is much more ideal
Although I would put more hammers into settlers purely because of IMP so higher efficiency in chopping settlers rather than WB's. Wet corn should be enough to sustain city to a reasonable size for a settler pump anyway so you can ignore fishing for now I think.

 

[vranasm]

not to disagree with My and L here, but I would put fishing on the shop list pretty high... it is 2C on commerce poor start and that fish is coastal too.

mining + bw will take like 20 turns without fishing commerce and you will waste tons of worker turns for sure

even in the most optimistic scenario (agri+mining finished with worker at T15) you will still need something like 14 turns for BW meaning 9 turns of waiting until the worker can do something and what you want to chop with the worker after? another bunch of workers/settlers without any commerce?

to bad that the start ruins such good leader with good starting techs for eng abuse.

 

[Mylene]

Vran i think you forgot he starts with Agri

 

[vranasm]

Vran i think you forgot he starts with Agri

hmm well that could change a thing or two ;-) mining->bw->fishing if it gives enough time for choping WB's is the right way ;-)

 

[Cheps]

Actually I'm very tempted to get a fast second worker and then chop chop chop.

Mining->BW->Fishing

Worker->Worker->WB->Warrior->WB-Warrior->Settler

or something like that. With dual workers out, if I can manage choping and overflow well I could produce 2 WBs, 2 warriors and a settler very fast?

Another question, how fast are barbs on immortal? If I tech Mining->BW->Fishing, do I still have time for AH or shall I grab hunting->archery quickly? There's tundra so it could be too wide open to fog bust everything with a few warriors.

 

[vranasm]

Actually I'm very tempted to get a fast second worker and then chop chop chop.

Mining->BW->Fishing

Worker->Worker->WB->Warrior->WB-Warrior->Settler

or something like that. With dual workers out, if I can manage choping and overflow well I could produce 2 WBs, 2 warriors and a settler very fast?

Another question, how fast are barbs on immortal? If I tech Mining->BW->Fishing, do I still have time for AH or shall I grab hunting->archery quickly? There's tundra so it could be too wide open to fog bust everything with a few warriors.

a lot depends on map, but can be nasty... sometimes you won't feel pressure at all and sometimes... well play couple of games on immortal and you will see ;-)

 

[pigswill]

If you go worker mining>BW you won't lose too many turns by the time you've built the worker (15t), improved the corn (5t),roaded the corn (2t), moved and roaded GHill (3t).

Its difficult to plan too far ahead without getting some idea of the general neighborhood. If you're going for worker BW rather than warrior>WB fishing then you could maybe explore a bit until worker is built then consider the options.

 

[vranasm]

looking at the starting location again...it somehow feels this would be very good map for GLH...

you have there the PH north from cap which seems like island with overlap on 3 sea food

you can place city north east for sheep.

you have plenty of trees to chop GLH

you need of course check the inland a bit to see if you want to block a bit the land inland, but I saw couple of GLH games on pangea being very successful.

 

[Cheps]

So the story begins... Started with worker first, mining->BW. Since there was no bronze in the area I had explored, I decided for AH, hoping for horses (and because I have sheeps in BFC). Well there was some horses but not very close, so I made a few warriors to make the path clear for my settler. Didn't have any problem with animals, I barely saw any animal, because barbs showed so fast! 2 Archers + 1 warrior ganged my first warrior, luckily they had enough and went away.

My teching was: mining->BW->AH->fishing->pottery->writing
And my build order: worker->warrior->worker->warrior->warrior->settler->work boats->worker
Neighbours I met: Isabella - Asoka - Wang Kong - Charly - Tokugawa

I sent one worker with my settler so I could improve cows + horses ASAP, meanwhile second worker built a road so I could make chariots. Now it's time to make more settlers and grab land as fast as possible. Of course I'm in slavery. Here's my empire:

Notice how Isabella decided we should be intimate or something like that. Asoka is to the south, past the jungle. Charly has six cities already!

The surroundings of my second city:

Cows, horses, few hills, a good early production city. Now look to the east, these barbarians got nice land there. City is protected by 4 archers, luckily it's not on a hill... I guess I'd need 8 chariots to bust it safetly.

Cities I should try to get ASAP, in pink:

Pigs, rice, gold, 2x FPs, and horse + 3x hills for some production. And I can settle it before dealing with the barbs.

I want to grab this one soon too:

Despite beeing philo, I'd still like a cottage city. This would be a nice spot for it, with cows and room for 10 riverside cottages, and I don't even need IW before some time. Don't think I'll make any more city to the west or the south of this one.

I'm also tempted to settle a city between this one and the gold city, with gems + banana + rice, but it'd be useless until IW, plus it's very close to Asoka and Tokugawa, so I could easily lose the food resources to culture before the city is more powerful.

Now the the cities I have a bit more time before I settle, in white:

The one to the east is a no brainer: pigs, fish, FPs, and access to stone. I wish I could settle it in time for pyramids, but these damn barbarians...
The one in the middle has crab+wheat and that's it, but it'd be enough to run a few scientists.
The one to the west I'm not sure, it's sharing sheeps and crabs so in the end it only has these deers, a 3 food tile. A bit light.

At least I can have 6 solid cities. So for now I'm focusing on settlers/workers, with the least possible number of chariots. I hope the 2 pink cities will be mine, then I'll grab the wheat + crab. Then I should have enough chariots to take out the barb city and settle my 6th. I'm also hoping for pyramids for representation, most cities will be running specialists.

Tech wise, I think I should get aestethic and trade it for alphabet, IW, and other techs?

 

[Mylene]

hmm if you settle more cities so far away, and they are "slow starters", you will really get into gold trouble
Sharing those clams with a city west of Istanbul would improve your situation.

 

[vranasm]

I would hug the coast and build GLH... tons of seafood, even some islands for even more commerce

let the AI improve the jungle.

 

[Cheps]

Have to admit I didn't think about city distance. The cottage city could go 1N or 2N, closer to Istanbul. I don't need really need cows for that city. Gold city is definitely far...

Getting a few coastal cities + GLH sounds damn good, and I could even settle on islands indeed. But then I'd be boxed to the coast line. I don't have copper or elephants, and if I also don't have iron I'll need to stay low profile until rifles/canons/grenadiers. The good thing is that each AI has a different religion so far so I could maybe go peaceful for some time. But I'll have to be careful when trading.

So I think I'll get sailing before aesthetic. Settle coastal cities and try to get the GLH. And I'll still try to get that cottage city to the south of Istanbul, but I'll move it a bit closer. Will need open borders for foreign trade routes with some neighbours.

 

[Shaandore]

Have to admit I didn't think about city distance. The cottage city could go 1N or 2N, closer to Istanbul. I don't need really need cows for that city. Gold city is definitely far...

Getting a few coastal cities + GLH sounds damn good, and I could even settle on islands indeed. But then I'd be boxed to the coast line. I don't have copper or elephants, and if I also don't have iron I'll need to stay low profile until rifles/canons/grenadiers. The good thing is that each AI has a different religion so far so I could maybe go peaceful for some time. But I'll have to be careful when trading.

So I think I'll get sailing before aesthetic. Settle coastal cities and try to get the GLH. And I'll still try to get that cottage city to the south of Istanbul, but I'll move it a bit closer. Will need open borders for foreign trade routes with some neighbours.

You would leave some juicy grassland tiles unworked south of your capital if you settle the cottage city so far away. Tile sharing with capital is also a good idea because the capital could help growing the cottages. Don't forget to make some farms though for growth and to be able to work those hills. Later you can replace the farms and mines with cottages and windmills.

 

[Cheps]

So it didn't end well at all. After settling 3rd city, a barb spearman showed and captured Edirne
My chariot and my warrior couldn't stop him. Then I gave up, don't think I could have recover. Next time I may get archery if I don't see copper...

 

[Gumbolt]

As stated by others. City 2 was 2-3 tiles too far from the capital. I liked the sheep/deer/crabs site 1n4east of the capital. Also 3w of the capital allowed 2 clams/corn and the cows. GP farm but lots of desert.

I do love Mehmeds UU. +2 happiness and +2 health. His traits are not bad either. Makes maths a solid early tech. Early pottery is not bad either.

As for the barb spear. Perhaps unlucky? Don't be afraid to fog bust. There is a lot of jungle it appears from your pics.

I would restart and try grabbing those 2 close cities first. Overlapping with capital's resources is an almost must on immortal at times. Firstly to reduce distance upkeep costs, secondly to help with cottages from the capital and thirdly to share out the food from a food rich capital.