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Stasis + Revolutions

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by Bickendan, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:06 AM.

  1. Bickendan

    Bickendan Chieftain

    Mar 6, 2011
    I'm not sure if this is something that's working as intended or is just an unforseen consequence.
    Playing a Lanun (Hannah the Irin) game where an Illian faction got spawned in as a vassal to the Shieam, waited a turn or two, popped Stasis just as I was sending a task force of Saverous, Guybrush Threepwood, Hemah, and a bunch of Cultists to smack the Bannor around. This in of itself is fine, although 60 turns of Stasis starting turn 753/1800 is painful (I'm currently at turn 789)... and then a few turns in declare themselves too small to survive and rejoin the Shieam. The problem is that even though production and science all turn off, the revolt status does not, and if the cash reserve isn't high enough, there's nothing you can do to counter it save by having large garrisons on hand or switching to more stabilizing Civics, because there's no money coming in to bribe cities, and buildings and units can't be built. And four turns of anarchy during a switch doesn't help the overall stability.
    Considering Golden Ages that get interrupted by Stasis are actually also put on hold during the effects of Stasis, it'd seem so should rebellious sentiments, even if there is a logic for allowing that mechanic to continue, but it does put a lot of power into the hands of an unscrupulous Illian player or AI to disrupt large empires and spawning new factions.
    Furthermore, considering how quickly cities go from merely disgruntled to outright revolting on Marathon, I'm not sure that Revolutions is scaling very well between the different speeds. I see the same factions get crushed into the ground and spring back up several times within a 100 turn block on Marathon, and at one point, I outright razed a city I'd previously captured that got recaptured by rebels from the original faction just so I didn't have to deal with that particular city.

    A quick synopsis of what I dealt with:
    I start expanding, run into the Svaltafar to the east. They get pressure from Barbarians, I take advantage and conquer both their capital and the city the barbarians capture. I then have to bribe them down. East of there, the Doviello (Mahala) and the Amurites (Dain the Caswallan) get into a war. The Amurites are outright removed from the game, but return as the Doviello can't manage the region, and the Amurites ask to be my vassal for protection; I go in and start carving up Doviello lands, forming a puppet government (Doviello -- Baron Duin Halfmorn) for cities I don't want to directly deal with. I capture Amurite cities Mahala had grabbed, give them back to Dain, and cap a Barbarian city I keep for myself, and then go for Mahala's throat, which cause two Doviello factions (Charadon, Vollana) to split off, while the Clan (Hafgan the Purger) revolts off from Duin Halfmorn and captures a city I'd given him.
    Charadon agrees to become my vassal after I sweet talk him with some tech; Vollana only exists as an army and can't be found. I capture the city Hafgan stole from Halfmorn, form another puppet state (Doviello - Vollana; there are now two Vollanas).
    The Barbarian city I captured requests independence as a vassal; Falamar comes in. ~20 turns later, he says he's too small to survive on his own and rejoins the empire.
    I finally beat Mahala down to one island city and force capitulation on her.
    Vassals: Dain the Caswallan (Amurite)
    Baron Duin Halfmorn (Doviello)
    Charadon (Doviello)
    Vollana2 (Doviello)
    Mahala (Doviello)
    Falamar (Lanun) (brief)

    Like Falamar, Vollana2 decides she's too small to make it, formally joins the empire.
    With Mahala subjugated, the area is stable *enough* to deal with the Infernals on my western front. To be safe, as I'm amassing Cultists to flood them, I spawn in the Mercurians in one of the former Doviello cities, dealing with all too frequent civil unrest in the various cities.

    Once in, war with the Infernals is automatic, triggering a war with the Kuriotates and Shieam. Depsite Dis being at size 57 and the Infernal having captured a Ljosalfar city, I capture Dis and the elves grab their city back. Not wanting to deal with the nightmare of unrest of a size 57 city, I form a puppet state (Amurite - Valledia the Even). Despite having 2.71 installed, treaties still like to autocancel (relic from a 2.69 save?), so the various vassals will break free and immediately repetition to be vassals. Dain broke free, declared war on Sabathiel, rejoined, war with the Bannor.

    Send my forces through the elven forests to put him down, the Illians pop up, Stasis, and drop out. The Doviello front, now lightly garrisoned, goes into several revolts -- Hafgan again (the Mercurians help put that one down), and Vollana2 (or 3, unsure, as it's the same cultural color as 2).

    So, for the TLDR, Illian worldspell does not cause revolution mechanic to pause like it will pause Golden Ages.
    Revolutions does not seem to scale with game speed, making it easier to deal with in a Quick game.
    Multiple instances of the same leader can spawn and exist simultaneously, instead of spawning a completely new civ/leader if needed.
  2. Slarki

    Slarki Chieftain

    Aug 5, 2011
    Revolutions are still experimental, if they ever get stable because it seems like development got halted
  3. lfgr

    lfgr Chieftain

    Feb 6, 2010
    Thank you for your report on this, unfortunately, there hasn't been progress here for quite some time and this particular fix is probably tedious to implement, so I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

    This is semi-intended, when I coded the civ/leader chosing mechanic Tholal asked me to rather let a leader spawn again than spawn a puppet state of a different civ. My vision for this was to have generic leaders with random names, but I never got around implementing it, or even proposing it to Tholal.

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