State property with no expansion?

[Bibor]

I'm thinking about how to solve the problem of having too much infrastructure (buildings) in my cities when going for State Property without conquest (say, a space race).

I see two distinct scenarios, one with a cottagable capital and one without (both presume no Mids).

With a cottagable capital and post Alpha/Currency, would it be safe to say that non-capital cities "are good" with just getting the very basics (granary, library, forge,lighthouse?) and then press on by producing units, science or gold? Followed by 6 universities & Oxford for capital? In this case, I don't think its even worth cottaging these cities, just let them run specialists and utilize farms/mines till workshops start being a reasonable alternative.

And what about when capital is not cottagable. Should I move it very early to a better spot?

I ask because it feels like a waste to workshop/watermill over perfectly developed towns, especially if you have high science multipliers (75%).

Also, if not already a thing, I figure GLF sounds like a good new name for an old concept (Granary-Library-Forge)

 

[Fippy]

Not every city needs factories, power + workshops imo, nothing wrong with keeping towns in lib + uni + Obs cities if going for space.
Tbh in conquest games you just dun care after reaching certain techs, and most cities auto switch to units.

Forges can be tricky buildings (if going for optimal games), in sgotm the top teams often skipped them completely.
They are not that important, cos 25% hammers is maybe 1/3 as powerful as granaries.
Ofc in cities reaching high base hammers, they also become auto buildings, but i am more selective with them before that.

 

[Anysense]

Forges are rather expensive buildings. Just think of it, 120 for 25% boost. How long will it take to pay back? Lets see, 120/0,25=480! And thats just to get back the hammers invested into forge, only after that it starts bringing profit. So, if you are going for early warfare and build a forge, it returns the investment after you've built, say, 10 praetorians or 9 catapults! Does not sound like an efficient use of , better build more catapults right away.
Of, course Industrious makes early forges far more attractive, particularly when you have 2 or 3 resources for. Otherwise they aren't worth bothering with until you switch to hammer economy. Mining inc also makes huge difference, depending on the map script it can add up to 50 base hammers, making multipliers useful even in crappy one-tile-island cities.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think most people mix up hammer and commerce cities. On space you want a decent bureau city with maybe 1-2 helper cities to run cottages. I think my capital was churning 600+ beakers. If you have a large empire of 20-30 cities hardly matters if you spam workshops and levees.

If your capital is not suitable for cottages you can look at a production city early on. You can always move the capital later. You could even use it to spam wonders/units.
With a financial leader come late game a workshop in SP seems to match the commerce from a town. So in effect if a cottage is still hamlet or village it may be better to build a workshop instead. I think this is why someone questioned democracy as a tech for space. As growing cottages/towns faster is not key to space race. Especially in a game where you wipe out 1-2 AI and you have 20-30+ cities. I think you seem to avoid early HA or axe rushes.

The issue that Anysense points out is return on builds. On a space game once you can run workshops you can pretty much run science at 100%. This means all markets/banks/grocers add very little value if science is 100%. Same for aqueduct/colloseums. As Fippy pointed out in another thread a size 10 city can be better than a size 20 city elsewhere. Happiness and health less of an issue too.

I think city builds/wonders and tile improvemenst should be done a city by city basis. I think most cities would have a granary. I don't think libraries or forges should be everywhere. If I am likely to whip cuirs in a conquest game I like to have a few forges to allow 2-3 pop whips.

 

[krikav]

Forges are expensive yes, and should not be built automatic.
Some good things about forges: Decent happy-buildings, often you have access to at least 2 of the 3 metals you get happy from.
And you can often find yourself in a situation where you know you will wage war later. Such as when you are teching for rifles/cannons or similar. Then you have the time to build the forges.

And the 25% boost is really nice when whipping. It's so much easier to get those 2pop and 3pop whips right away when you get 37 hammers per pop.