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States General Assembly Hall

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game IV: Citizens' started by vra379971, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Honorary Clerk of the Realm,

    I am shocked to hear that during the latest turnchat, a Tao temple was prioritized over a Hindu Temple! I demand that the construction is stopped and that the citizens start working on a hindu temple immidiately! I also suggest that we do not spread other religions than hinduism or build religious facilities that are not hindu!
     
  2. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I support Diamondeyes request. No Taoist Temple should ever rise in Aretanian lands.
     
  3. Vandal Warlord

    Vandal Warlord Nazgûl

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    Honarary Clerk of the Relm,
    I say nay! The spreading of other religions does no harm to us, and even increaces culture if you look at it. If we have a Hindu and Taoist temple in one city, that is double the culture! And I made a personal request that Christianity is Spread to Santiago, so I could start another RP thread. Although we are a therocracy, that does not mean that we are forced t abide every therocrateic law! (Well, maybe it does,) But that doesn't mean we can't spread several religions, to increase culture!
     
  4. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Hinduism should have priority, regardless! First Hinduism, then the others!!!
     
  5. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

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    Honorary members of the Assembly,

    First off I would like to apologize for my unannounced absence, I am in the middle of a family emergency. I have but a limited amount of time to spend in these halls so I will make my points bluntly.

    Provo, you are out of order, Only Reps of the Assembly Hall can post here. If you want to become a Rep you must follow the correct channels. Since the CoA are the PF then the King formally represents his Faction and his Regent presides over the hall. I was under the impression you were still a member of the Warlords Faction. If this is the case you can represent the Warlords. Please make this known to me in the public sqaure or via PM.

    Now onto business. I will put the following measures up for vote in the Assembly.

    Change Legal Civic

    Currently:
    Bureaucracy, high upkeep, +50% :hammers: and :commerce: in Capital.

    Available:
    Free Speech, low upkeep, +100% culture in all cities; +2 gold from town
    Vassalage, high upkeep, New units receive +2 experience points; +22 free units.

    Change Labor Civic-

    Currently:
    Slavery, medium upkeep, Can sacrifice population to finish production in a city.

    Available:
    Serfdom, low upkeep, Workers build improvements 50% faster.
    Caste System, Medium upkeep, Unlimited artist, scientist, merchant; +1 hammer from Workshops.

    Change Economic Civic-

    Currently:
    Decentralization, low upkeep

    Available:
    Mercantilism, Medium upkeep, +1 free specialist per city; No foreign trade routes; Foriegn corporations have no effect.
    Free Market, Medium upkeep, +1 trade route per city; -25% maintenance costs from corporations.

    Change Religious Civic-

    Currently:
    Paganism, low upkeep

    Available:
    Organized Religion, High upkeep, Can build missionaries without monastery; Cities with state religion construct buildings +25% faster.
    Theocracy, Medium upkeep, +2 experience points in cities with state religion; No non-state religion spread.
    Pacifism, No upkeep, +100% great person birth rate in cities with state religion; +1 gold support cost per military unit
    Free Religion, Low upkeep, No state religion; +1 :) per religion in a city; +10% research in all cities.

    Assembly rules are as followed-
    24 hours to debate (post your recommendations). Immediately following the debate time the vote will begin and will also last 24 hours. A Representative may also make his debate post his vote post if he declares it. Each civic will be looked at individually and need a majority of the votes to pass. I will cast the deciding vote in the event of a tie. Thank you gentlemen..... The debate period begins now (Monday, GMT 8:29 PM) and ends Tuesday, GMT 8:29 PM).
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

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    Unless I get a gameplay argument for not building non-state religious buildings in our empire then I must agree with vandal. It does not hurt us or help our enemies if the religion is already present in the city. If you guys really want a debate on the issue I will set it for immediately after the Civics issue has been resolved.
     
  7. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Honorary Clerk of the Realm,

    I support the following civics:
    Vassalage, Caste System and Theocracy.
    I am strongly opposed to the civics:
    Slavery, Free Religion and Serfdom.

    Also, why do you need a gameplay argument for not erecting tao institutions?
    On a side note, I apololigize for misinforming. Babylon has a Hindu temple. So the Tao temple was not prioritized over a hindu temple.

    Still, I see no reason to let those inferior unbelievers thrive in our own cities! We want to win the heart of these people! We want them to become aretans! And part of that is our state religion, the ibbisine hinduism! I was relieved when I heard of Provoshoguns success in destroying the source of this illness that has infected babylonian lands, and now you volounteer to spread it?

    I must object. I cannot corporate with a government who insists on spreading false lies to its populace, it goes against everything I stand for and believe in. If I had had the possibility, I had stopped this "Tao" with my own sword, but luckily the warlords took care of this.

    What am I going to tell the people? The faithful of New Giruvegan and Madrid? Of Arete and Edorai? That the heathens we have just defeated in a war is now our equals and should be treated as so? That they will be welcome in our cities and have temples and cathedrals of their own? Do you know what the reaction would be? Taoists would be massacred, temples burnt to the ground. Innocent babylonians could be killed that way. Please take this as a warning and not as a threat. Although I may be the head of our religious order, I cannot control the faith of the people to abide such nefarious laws. I hereby suggest that it is forbidden to practice any religion but hinduism and that any institutions connected with heathen religions are removed immidiately!
     
  8. Vandal Warlord

    Vandal Warlord Nazgûl

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    Honarary Clerk of the Relm,
    I am too apposed to Slavery, but without it Kassite cannot produce, unless it is given the Moai Statues.
     
  9. thecommonnate

    thecommonnate Theocrat

    Joined:
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    Clerk of the Realm,
    I support Vassalage, Free Economy, Caste System, and Theocracy, until the end of the Babylonians, at which point I will support Free Speech, Free Economy, Caste System, and Organized Religion.

    I support the first package of civics so that we may strike at Babylon sooner, and with more advanced troops, and I will change to the second package for the economical and cultural benefits.

    As far as religion goes, lets not reduce ourselves. It is impossible to convince such a large party that they are wrong, and if we wish to it by force, then what is our points? We have already lost if this is the case. A state religion should be instituted to recognize a majority, not destroy a minority.
    Taoism won't spread into anywhere other then Babylon, where it already lies. Our work as Aretans is simple, to do away with primitiveness by bringing the world under our rule, anything else wouldn't be what the Gods themselves would appreciate.
     
  10. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Honorable Clerk of the Realm,

    I support Vassalage, Slavery, Free Economy and Theocracy, until the end of the Babylonians, at which point I will support Free Speech, Slavery, Free Market and Organized Religion. Under all circumstances, we should build ALL Hindu buildings, then theatre, collosseum and other happiness and culture related buildings not related to Taoism. I would like to have it implemented as a fixed policy, that Taoist religious buildings are to be built last after a sequence of similar buildings doing the same job.
    Other cultural buildings, even non-religious, should be chosen 0ver Taoist buildings.

    I support the first package of civics so that we may strike at Babylon sooner, and with more advanced troops, and I will change to the second package for the economical and cultural benefits some turns right after the end of the Babylonian War, but to make sure we have a high quality military in all respects.

    We got our state religion, and we got our secular interests to consider as well. Taoism lost the war, and should thusly be reduced to a third tier option, as it has no bearing on developing our nation until there are no other option left. There are numerous other buildings I rather see first. Therefore, stop all Taoist buildings and build other kinds of buildings, it is a direct demand!
     
  11. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

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    Please respect the rules of the EGA.
     
  12. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

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    I agree to prioritizing Hinduism buildings over any other religions' but to outlaw all other religious buildings may hurt us after we leave the Happiness cushion of Hereditary Rule behind.
     
  13. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Honorable Clerk of the Realm,

    I know it may seem like doing the right thing when trying to care for everyone - including the taoists. But I have to bring some of my friends in here back to reality. You cannot care for everyone. And I, of all people, should know about how this religious act will be recieved by the faithful. I have served in the churches of Aretania since times eternal. And I know that this seemingly small gesture towards the taoists would send signals to the populace. Signals that the gods they believe in are not the only, not even the best, gods there are. That we have been lying to them. Apart from this being false, it would undermine the authority of the government, all kings since the first coronated king, Seidrik, and of the church of Ibbisine Hinduism itself. This is unacceptable. I am not asking you to wipe out a minority, merely that they should be hindered in spreading their faith. Gentlemen, we invaded Babylon, now show me that you actually want the city to be part of our empire and let it be run by aretanian manners or burn it to the ground.

    My statement stands. If other religions are allowed official practice and institutions of their own, I do not want to be associated with the Cycles of Arete or this council.
     
  14. Vandal Warlord

    Vandal Warlord Nazgûl

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    Honaray Clerk of the Relm,

    This is becoming a serious matter. I belive that we must deal with this soon, or Civil War will plague our people. I say a vote is called.
     
  15. thecommonnate

    thecommonnate Theocrat

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    Lord Civius has agreed to prioritizing Hinduism over Taoism, but not to outlaw the customs. I am perfectly fine with this compromise, as we may need the benefit of other religions later in the game.

    And how would this act of kindness be considered a disgrace to the faithful of Arete? Don't tell me your followers have been instructed that to wipe out peoples' beliefs is a divine thing, thats blasphemy, the Gods would never allow this.
     
  16. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Very well then. All Hindu building options must be exhausted, then other happiness options must be exhausted as well, before we consider the need for a Taoist Building. I would go as far as stating King Cyc would have to approve planned Taoist builds, before they can be built, as he is the monarch. If those opposed to Taoism thinks that our leadership is too liberal, we got a revolt, the same goes the other way.


    I think that would be the perfect balance of the regulatory for curbing Taoism, without outlawing it completely.
     
  17. thecommonnate

    thecommonnate Theocrat

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    I will accept what Provo has stated.
     
  18. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    The outcome of this would be that present Taoist builds under construction would be frozen until King Cyc deems it necessary to complete them.
     
  19. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Honorary Clerk of the Realm,

    Allow me to explain myself to TCN. Of course the faithful have not been instructed in massacring heathens. At least not by me or any instance of the church. What examples the empire itself has stated I can only ask you to review for yourself. But they - like any Aretanian should - believe that the gods of the ibbisine hinduism are the only gods. If you allow otherr religions to build temples to their gods, you are insiniuating that there are other gods. Hence you are insinuating that we have lied to the people for decades. That provokes some kind of civil unrest. This is what I am warning against.

    Besides, allowing Tao and Christian institutions is basically the same as terminating our current idea of a state religion. If you really care, go ahead. But then atleast, make it official. State that there will be no state religion at all. But don't expect any assistance from me in running this thing. I have served since birth in the ranks of the faithful to spread belief and relief to the people of Arete. If this is undermined by happenings like this I can no longer proceed as part of the council.

    Hence, I suggest following alternative: It will be as Provoshogun dictated. Buildings of a religion that is not ibbisine hinduism must be approved by the sitting king. I wish to add a small, personal paragraph.

    If a king decides to raise a temple or monastery of a heathen religion, changes the state religion, or accepts that there is no state religion, I will resign from the estates general assembly of the CoA and will decline any request from the CoA to coronate their king.

    Does that please everyone?
     
  20. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I got a more drastic proposal, I call this scenario for Religious Civil War.

    Since the game got non-locked assets, we can decide to make this a multiplayer team game at a stage. I suggest that all Pro-Hindu cities are allowed to secede from Aretania, if Taoism is pushed through, with a ratio of active players following a line where the number of players voting for their governed city to go to a certain side, where the King throws in his support to a given side, possibly making a Moderator arbitrate on disputed cities.

    Pro Hindu cities are as already stated:

    New Giruvegan
    Edorai
    Madrid and other former Spanish cities

    Likely Pro Taoism Cities:

    All Former Babylonian Cities with Taoism plus Kassite & Venice

    Likely Neutral Cities:

    Arete?
    Arkadia?
     

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