Stations actively detrimental

[Strategist83]

... ! It's insane.

Fort Barca? Yes, hi, welcome! Oh, you are plopping down on a tile three tiles within range of my Outpost location, so now I can't settle there and will have to find a lesser location? No problem, Fort Barca! Thanks again!

.

.

So, what should be done about this? Should there be a larger minimum range within which Stations will spawn?

 

[GenEngineer1]

Alternately, take whatever unit you had guarding the colonist and destroy the station. Until some trade has raised their tier, they're rather squishy, and can't bombard you to fight back.

 

[Strategist83]

You'll need at least two Soldiers to take out a station. The situation I'm currently facing, I don't even have a military unit - It's very early game and I'm running fast expand Prosperity, there are no nearby aliens or other factions - would you suggest I build military just to kill a station blocking my expansion?

Really, the problem goes beyond this. There is no reason to trade with a station very early game; you'll always want to run internal routes. Stations seem to serve little role in the world early on other than take up space. By the time you want to trade them, they'll have disappeared. Don't like it.

 

[Question]

The problem is when you do want to trade with them yet at the same time you want the resources near the station which you cant get because you cant found a city within 3 tiles of a station.

Im trying to figure out how to mod it so that you can found within 3 tiles of a station but not a city...any ideas guys?

 

[True_Candyman]

You'll need at least two Soldiers to take out a station. The situation I'm currently facing, I don't even have a military unit - It's very early game and I'm running fast expand Prosperity, there are no nearby aliens or other factions - would you suggest I build military just to kill a station blocking my expansion?

Really, the problem goes beyond this. There is no reason to trade with a station very early game; you'll always want to run internal routes. Stations seem to serve little role in the world early on other than take up space. By the time you want to trade them, they'll have disappeared. Don't like it.

Your first paragraph and your second paragraph raise very different points.

Your second paragraph is interesting, on some strategies you won't find a lot of the stations very useful early on. I've found cultural stations like Lalibela can easily double your culture output early game though, so i don't think this is a particularly valid criticism. They CAN be useful, you're just choosing not to use them, regardless of whether they are useful or not for your strategy.

Your first paragraph however, is very strange. You are insinuating that you should be entitled to run a strategy of exclusive expansion without any need for military. If you want to play a game like that you should play a massive map, with one opposing AI and aliens turned off. If you run such a specialist and risky strategy you are inevitably gunna find bumps along the way you have to deal with. These station placements are not problems, they are easy to take down, it doesn't take much time, but it can catch you out if you're strategy has failed to take into account the fact that there are factors beyond your own expansion at play.

 

[GenEngineer1]

Trade route complications are their own issue, rooted more in the fact that internal/international routes are VERY strong as opposed to Stations being weak (The first 2 need a nerf, rather than Stations needing a buff).

 

[Question]

No, stations need a buff. Even with the supposedly OP internal trade routes, it takes like 10 turns to build midgame wonders.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Some stations are strong. If a station lands where you wanted a city, plant your second city where you planned your third. The station can keep that spot safe from any rivals dropping a city there, and provide a safe alternative to international routes when you are surrounded by hostile aliens.

 

[The_Reckoning]

+1 Magma Dragon

If you're sending a colonist out before having a single military unit, what do you do when it gets attacked by aliens? Reload? Your strategy sounds off. Build a soldier, then a colonist, settle in the 3rd city spot, then you probably get that quest bonus soldier, take them and smash the station.

Does there seem to be any specific timing to stations plopping down? Maybe if we can work that out, you can time your colonists to be moving just after the station's arrived, so you don't get caught out.

 

[GenEngineer1]

No, stations need a buff. Even with the supposedly OP internal trade routes, it takes like 10 turns to build midgame wonders.

? Implying that's a sign of something wrong? Wonders should take a while to build at any stage of the game, unless you're in the late game trying to grab an earlier one that the AI and you skipped.

 

[Question]

10 turns is WAY too long on quick speed especially given how lackluster the wonders are. Thats part of why spamming units is much more efficient since you can build 3 or 4 and go take the city with the wonder instead.

 

[GenEngineer1]

I didn't realize that you meant on quick. I still believe that internal/international stations need a nerf, but I concede that maybe I was wrong on how long a wonder should take (I have about 0 experience with quick). Speaking of gamespeed, does anyone know if the yields from trade routes (to anywhere) are altered by gamespeed?

(Also, some wonders do need a buff, especially the late game ones. I agree wholeheartedly that they are lackluster)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

If you go to assets/gameplay/XML/globaldefines.xml you can raise MIN_STATION_RANGE_TO_CITY higher. Seek recommends 8, I've tried that and it's MUCH better.

 

[Question]

Then why doesnt MIN_CIV_STARTING_DISTANCE work for other civs? I tried changing it to 15 and i still had civs landing within 10 tiles of my start location.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I think that gets ignored if you raise it too high and there's no room for them to land.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think that gets ignored if you raise it too high and there's no room for them to land.

One would think that that would be tied to Map Size?

Then why doesnt MIN_CIV_STARTING_DISTANCE work for other civs? I tried changing it to 15 and i still had civs landing within 10 tiles of my start location.

What Map size was used in this?

JosEPh

 

[Tinker]

It's actually very strange that you still need to be 4 tiles away from a station to settle a city. The stations don't have any territory except the tile they sit on (unlike city-states), so why restrict it? It would solve all problems people have with them.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I'm pretty sure it uses the same value used for cities, which doesn't make sense of course.

 

[GenEngineer1]

Minimum 4 tile away settlement is used so that it stays outside the cities workable radius, same as with other cities. I wonder (from a purely scientific standpoint) what happens if you turn that off and try to have a city work a station? Probably a mess, but still curious.

 

[barcas]

It's actually very strange that you still need to be 4 tiles away from a station to settle a city. The stations don't have any territory except the tile they sit on (unlike city-states), so why restrict it? It would solve all problems people have with them.

And create dozen of different ones. If I settle next to a station, my borders would overlap it, thus protecting it from other players unless they wish to war with me as well.

EDIT: Btw I have just realized that OP used Fort Barca as an example.