Stations are probably the new best XP farming spot for units

[cazaderon]

So, looking at the different playthrough on the internet these days, it s pretty obvious how one can abuse stations to farm veterancies for its units, especially ranged one.

So in Civ 5, people use to farm city states for workers and early XP. But tbh, farming XP wasnt that easy considering the power of their range attack.

Now in BE, stations cant fire at a unit unless the melee unit tries to raid it. And range units ? well it just doesnt get fired at when attacking.

Anyone knows if there s a cap to how much veterancies units can get from attacking stations ? If there's not, it's gonna be a quick walk in the park to max out units. Especially if one can find a station pretty isolated and thus avoid any kind of warmonger penalty as no one would be able to trade with it.

I find this potential "exploit" a bit worrying. Thoughts ?

 

[Gamewizard]

I would assume that once a station (or any city really) is at 0 hp, you would get 0 xp from hitting it with a ranged unit. Also, you would have to weigh the instant bonuses from destroying a station vs the xp gained. But yes, this could be a problem in theory.

 

[Obbu]

Yeah, they'd probably have to cap it the way they capped Barbarian XP (much as that used to annoy me).

Perhaps the best option would be to have a very small cap, but on a per-station basis, rather than a small worldwide hard cap: to keep the concept of fighting stations relevant.

 

[ggmoyang]

As long as there's no strong promotions, (e g, march, logistics) it isn't mush of problem IMO. There's no Great General too.

 

[Eastern Heretic]

You have a point, this might be a problem. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that AI can raze stations with impunity and there is apparently no way to tell them to back off. The only way to peacefully protect a station is to surround it with units Seriously, I would expect a tactic like that to make an appearance in civ2...
They should at least give stations a ranged attack.

Yeah, they'd probably have to cap it the way they capped Barbarian XP (much as that used to annoy me).

Perhaps the best option would be to have a very small cap, but on a per-station basis, rather than a small worldwide hard cap: to keep the concept of fighting stations relevant.

IMO, the concept of attacking stations for XP shouldn't even be there in the first place. I wouldn't complain if they completely removed XP gain from attacking stations at all.

I'm afraid that combination of this exploit, lack of means to protect stations and the fact that they deny settling space is going to make them less relevant for their intended purpose of being trade partners.

For god's sake, if they occupy a 3-tile radius (that they can't even claim!) as normal cities why not give them a ranged attack as well?

 

[Obbu]

While I'm slightly concerned by the lack of 'grant protection' option for stations: the fact is that it was overused in civ 5: you could bully/demand tribute from a 'protected' city state, and the other civ often wouldn't care.

This way may seem a little primitive, but at least you need to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[aguliondew]

Remember Maddjinn is playing on the hardest level where the AI starts with an army and increased everything. StillI would hope that the stations would last longer, but it seem that AI do not care more about completing their missions instead of long term trade.

 

[cazaderon]

I would assume that once a station (or any city really) is at 0 hp, you would get 0 xp from hitting it with a ranged unit. Also, you would have to weigh the instant bonuses from destroying a station vs the xp gained. But yes, this could be a problem in theory.

Even then, stations regen health really fast. And you can just keep your units glued to it and heal them on the spot in between farming sessions. I actually noticed AIs doing it in the FI madjin play. Though i tend to believe they wanted to destroy it but failed completely in doing so.

You have a point, this might be a problem. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that AI can raze stations with impunity and there is apparently no way to tell them to back off.

Actually, i noticed in Madjins FI play that he had to declare war to far base one to destroy it.

So one would need to go to the trade screen and see if you can, just like in CIv 5, negotiate a peace treaty between a faction and a station.

I havent seend Madjin even check that when he was worried for palatine.

I dont see why that option wouldnt be available but if it isnt, then the mecanic in warring station is indeed broken.

 

[Aeson]

"Red Sun is an energy operation specializing in high-density, high-output power generation. Their power cells could literally jump-start our civil infrastructure.

Red Sun provides 3 Energy to any city that establishes a Trade Route.

Shooting Range is a NRA approved weapons training facility. Their instructors can teach our troops all sorts of advanced tactics.

Shooting Range provides 5XP a turn to any unit that shoots at it.

Which venture would you like to approve?

Red Sun
Shooting Range
Both?"

 

[Aeson]

It will be interesting to see what's possible in this regard. Surround a station with your cities and just train your troops on it. Maybe there is already a safeguard against it ...

 

[Gamewizard]

It will be interesting to see what's possible in this regard. Surround a station with your cities and just train your troops on it. Maybe there is already a safeguard against it ...

Eventually the station would disappear though if no one is trading with it.

 

[Tomice]

Eventually the station would disappear though if no one is trading with it.

Trade-attack-trade-attack-trade-attack....

 

[cazaderon]

Trade-attack-trade-attack-trade-attack....

This. One will figures out how long a station can stay without trade before it vanishes and adapt XP farming accordingly.

So it will be something like : Declare war, farm farm farm, make peace, send trade route. Rince and repeat.

Pretty sure that just using the time before the station vanishes will be enough to upgrade a ton of ranged units.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

If you attack a station you can NEVER trade with it.

 

[swordoflight86]

To me, the benefits of trading with stations outweigh getting XP for relatively pedestrian promotions.
+10% strength is decent, but not IMO not worth losing thing like bonus food, gold, culture, and science.

 

[Darsnan]

If you attack a station you can NEVER trade with it.

So if a station is conquered by an AI can you liberate it (i.e. is that an option in the game?)?

 

[ggmoyang]

So if a station is conquered by an AI can you liberate it (i.e. is that an option in the game?)?

It's just get razed on capture.

 

[cazaderon]

To me, the benefits of trading with stations outweigh getting XP for relatively pedestrian promotions.
+10% strength is decent, but not IMO not worth losing thing like bonus food, gold, culture, and science.

I disagree. Some stations are very much underwhelming. Especially those giving mixed yields.

Also, at the start of a game, there's a very good chance it will be a lot more beneficial to use internal routes as they provide a good amount of both food and production for both cities involved.

So in the mean time, farming a mediocre station with your freshly made units (made even faster through the OPness of internal routes) is highly beneficial. Especially when you think that the veterancies stack and get more powerfull (think it was said, like healing being 100% after a few vetting). And that's without even mentionning adding those farmed veterancies with the Affinity bonuses.

I can easily picture a unit with +60% (if not more) base damage through virtues, veterancies and affinity bonuses. So if you could farm in the first turn 7/8 range units of this kind easily, i dont think your typical "meh" station can compete.

 

[MadDjinn]

Remember Maddjinn is playing on the hardest level where the AI starts with an army and increased everything. StillI would hope that the stations would last longer, but it seem that AI do not care more about completing their missions instead of long term trade.

everyone gets station quests though.

The AI maybe gets a quest from their other station partner and sees a very nice bonus for declaring war on the one that I'm trading with. That's worth taking a shot at my station.

edit: and well, stations can keep appearing throughout the game.

 

[Gort]

I'd say it's a lot less of a problem if someone is farming City States/Stations to get promotions in Beyond Earth since you can't get the overpowered promotions like +1 Range and Shoot Twice on ranged units through XP any more.

That said, it's still a bit of an exploit - I wouldn't mind seeing fighting stations give 0 XP.