Statue of Zeus, without Ivory!

[Grey Fox]

In a PBEM game I'm playing now, I got Ivory pretty close by, although the Dutch stole most of them by planting a city near all three of the Ivory resources.

Although 1 of them were outside their border, so I did a gambit and built a road to it, and used a worker to build a colony. I then researched Mathematics first of every civ, and Built the wonder. Some turns after I got it (or before I don't remember), I lost the Ivory cus the Dutch city expanded it's borders.

So I built the statue of Zeus, and I havn't got an ancient cavalry yet!

Conclusion; the Statue of Zeus does not even function without ivory!

But the Dutch declared war during my military preparations, so now I will take the city from them!

 

[tigerden27]

Yup, I've fallen victum to this one also. Fortunately, I was able to trade for Ivory and started pumping out the Ancient Cavalry. Re-newed it once, by paying a decent amount of gold.

When I wouldn't bow to their demands when the trade ended, I declared war and took the ciuty with the Ivory.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, because if you trade for the Ivory, the AI civ pretty much can't let the agreement expire, because you will just invade just to get the Ivory.

Kind of a double edged sword.

 

[Yoda Power]

Interesting. It doesn´t make sense though, afterall it doesn´t produce elephants.

 

[microbe]

I don't like making Ivory more important than other luxury resources. Now it's more like a strategic resource.

How about just by having any two luxury resources you can build the wonder? It would be more balanced. Otherwise, wohever start close to Ivory get a huge advantage. This is totally unreasonable.

 

[Yoda Power]

microbe-I agree, I think Ivory should become a strategic resource(also needed for War Elephants). Then some other resource could always replace Ivory as a lux(Jade, Tobacco, Tea, Sugar, Wool etc etc etc...)

 

[kokoras]

Or,just changing the statue of Zeus requirements.As someone else had mentioned before,it is pure luck if you build this Wonder or not.And this is not right if we are speaking of a G.W.Every one sould have the opportunity to build it.

 

[slothman]

One thing I am thinking of is to make most wonders require a luxory of some sort. The Oracle could require inscence and so forth. Of course it probably wouldn't work though.

 

[Yoda Power]

kokoras-It is very realistic that it requires Ivory, it was made of Ivory and gold.

slothman-Thats an exelent idea, I dont see why it wouldn´t work.

 

[kokoras]

Yoda I am not talking of realism on this matter,but only of what it seems to me fair for the construction of this Wonder.Statue of Zeus is a source of a unique unit,that's why i believe that every one sould have the same probability of building it.As far as what Slothman says,well the idea remains the same:Why the construction of a G.W sould depend on pure luck???

 

[bobthomson]

I think the Statue of Zeus is incredibly cool _because_ it can only be built if you're lucky enough to have ivory. I suppose it would be bad if this were a critical Wonder like the UN, but this is just a fun Wonder. It also gives you reason to drive hard for Ivory while you're settling.

It's analogous to the Iron Works. How often do you get to build an Iron Works inside your productive core? Perhaps one game in fifty. Should we get rid of the Iron Works because it's not fair, either?

 

[Sodfather]

You guys have overlooked what is, in my opinion, the simplest and most logical solution to teh Statue of Zeus predicament.

The wonder's requirements should be altered, but not how some of you suggested. I think the Statue should require ivory to build (as it is actually made of ivory), but then when it has been built, ivory is no longer required.

Also, when ivory is no longer required, horses should be required as you are pumping out cavalry.

 

[Emperor Xerxes]

Maybe the ancient cavalry is paid in ivory, thats why there are no upkeep costs for them?

Well you think of something then!

 

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Emperor Xerxes
Maybe the ancient cavalry is paid in ivory, thats why there are no upkeep costs for them?

Well you think of something then!

They ride carnivourous horses which only eat elephant flesh.

No, seriously.

 

[Smoked_Ham]

I love the SoZ when I have Ivory and build it, and disapointed when I can't find Ivory... But Ivory should only be required to build it. then horses required like SodFather said.

In one game I had An Cav running around before I found horses, to build horsemen.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

Can't wait to play Conquests as soon as it's mailed to me, but I have to say that I can't wait for the challenge of finding ivory just so I can build the SoZ. I also agree that Ivory be required for India to build War Elephants and I have modded my game accordingly. I also gave the Carthiginians the ability to build War Elephants and don't think them having two UU's is that uneven, because they need to find ivory first! I think India having to have Ivory, which has an elephant for it's icon makes a lot of sense. I did make them 10 shields less to build, just to balance it out, so it's makes for some good battles for resources.

 

[bobthomson]

Originally posted by WilliamOfOrange
Can't wait to play Conquests as soon as it's mailed to me, but I have to say that I can't wait for the challenge of finding ivory just so I can build the SoZ. I also agree that Ivory be required for India to build War Elephants and I have modded my game accordingly. I also gave the Carthiginians the ability to build War Elephants and don't think them having two UU's is that uneven, because they need to find ivory first! I think India having to have Ivory, which has an elephant for it's icon makes a lot of sense. I did make them 10 shields less to build, just to balance it out, so it's makes for some good battles for resources.

While I like the way Ivory & SoZ work now, I would not want to play as India if my UU required Ivory. Sure, it's realistic, but if you're in an email game and your UU is unavailable you're in serious trouble. On the other hand, if you can't build the SoZ you can always build something else.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by WilliamOfOrange
I think India having to have Ivory, which has an elephant for it's icon makes a lot of sense. I did make them 10 shields less to build, just to balance it out, so it's makes for some good battles for resources.

Hope you upped their stats, cus Ivory is hard to get by, and it is almost only available in one part of the world. They are not spread out like iron or horses are.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

Well, truthfully, I didn't play as the Indians, so it's tough to say. In the game I played as the modded Carthiginians, I did not mod the Elephant unit, other than that it required Ivory. In this game, there was some, so I tried to claim it, and got to build and see the Elephants in action for the first time. I wasn't too concerned with their stats, at the time. I think they are a good unit as is, aren't they, 4-3-2 or something? That is pretty good, once you consider they are 10 sheilds cheaper, with Ivory of course. Playing as India would change things for sure, I will give it a try.

bob: I modded this way before the SoZ was around, so you may have a point, playing as India without Ivory would then suck for two reasons.

At the same time, I think that makes it interesting....I am considering modding several other units to require certain resources, just to balance it out.

 

[bobthomson]

Originally posted by WilliamOfOrange

At the same time, I think that makes it interesting....I am considering modding several other units to require certain resources, just to balance it out.

That's the coolest thing about the feature, it means that any luxury can potentially be an important resource. Build a winery for increased happiness - if you have grapes!

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by WilliamOfOrange
That is pretty good, once you consider they are 10 sheilds cheaper, with Ivory of course. Playing as India would change things for sure, I will give it a try.

No, that is not so strong... they are infact the same stats and the same cost as knights... The strong thing about them was that they did not require any resources. And with C3C they got +1HP.

With a requirement of Ivory, they would suck. Atleast if you keep ivory as a luxary resouorce. But having Ivory as a strategic resource just because of the Elephant would be stupid...