1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Steam - love or hate?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by oogabla, Sep 27, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    ...and they could have even more happy customers if they made a Steam version for fans of the service and a regular version for the rest of us. It worked well for Civ IV. If it ain't broke...don't fix it!!!
     
  2. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Burlingame CA
    OK, but my point is that you aren't any worse off because Civ V incorporates Steam. It just gives you an extra option for how to buy it. Suppose the online purchase option didn't exist at all, you wouldn't be any better off, right? I can understand how you are frustrated by Steam not working well for you, but you still are better off than if it didn't exist and the only option were retail sales.

    P.S. "The game costs twice as much in euro (thanks to the weak dollar)"? This seems a bit odd. If the dollar is weak then when you convert the price into euros you should get a low number. More likely the game costs more in Europe because of VAT and maybe a less competitive market. Or just because the average buyer in Europe is more affluent and so they think they can make more money at a higher price. But there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason that exchange rates would make it cost more.
     
  3. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Burlingame CA
    It didn't work that well in Civ IV, that's exactly the point. Many people have posted here about how the way Civ V is being sold is way more convenient for them than Civ IV was.

    I guess they could support two different versions but it's easy to understand why they don't want to deal with that. I remember all of the hassles with Civ IV where some people had the retail version and others had the Direct2Drive version. I doubt anyone wants to repeat that.

    Meanwhile, it's hard to understand how Steam makes you any worse off in any tangible way. I understand you just viscerally dislike it and you don't want to have anything to do with it. That's fine. But you can't expect too much sympathy from other people if that's all it is.
     
  4. skallben

    skallben Diplomat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,004
    Location:
    Cold Country in Europe
    Strawman would be a wild understatement. PCs don't really operate without an OS. Graphics drivers are essential to make the best us of your hardware. Games ran fine without "gaming platforms" for years. It's an invention that did not exist before that.

    No, I think you just sorted me out amongst the other in opposite camp of the battle and went retorical assault-mode on me. Otherwise I don't understand why you would ignore points of interest and instead try to deconstruct details. Therefor I drew the conclusion you were not interested in a discussion.
     
  5. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    424
    Games 'ran fine' in a certain sense. But let's face it, there was a reason gamer geeks were gamer geeks, and not regular people. Because you had to have a working familiarity with so much of the stuff, and had to basically become part of the culture before you could even really play or 'get' the games in so many cases.

    As I described earlier in the thread, contrary to what people seem to suggest, hunting down patches, much less multiple patches, across dozens of fan sites and shoddy developer websites, using bad search engines was not easy or fun.

    It's sort of nice to not install a game and then have to go to the internet and google things and check and find out if there are patches available. Or hunt down CD keys and CDs.

    My Diablo 2 CDs still work great, but the sticker on the CD Cases with the key has worn down and is now illegible. Whoops.

    Etc., so on.

    "Games ran fine without gaming platforms for years" is a ridiculous point. Games ran fine on the NES too, we didn't need an SNES, much less an X-Box. People got around fine without 'automobiles.' Heck, humanity managed to spread across the earth without cars! Don't see why we need cars, much less 'GPS systems' or 'airbags' etc. etc. etc.
     
  6. Jharii

    Jharii King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Walled Lake, MI
    And if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather. Moderator Action: Inappropriate
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Do you realize that you contradict yourself in your first sentence? So it doesn't require an OS, but yet it does? Seriously, your arguments seem to become more and more pedantic each time you post.

    The main reason that they don't do it is because it's convenient for THEM to program it in Windows. For all intents and purposes (read: their needs), they have carte blanche on the Windows API. Too much core programming when there is ample code that has already been written for them right at their fingertips.
     
  7. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Burlingame CA
    All I have to say now is that one group of people here seems to be a lot more dependent on personal attacks than the other.
     
  8. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    424
    That's exactly what I'd expect an employee of Valve to say.
     
  9. Jharii

    Jharii King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Walled Lake, MI
    Hmmmm. Didn't see a personal attack in my post, if I was the one that you were replying to.
     
  10. skallben

    skallben Diplomat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,004
    Location:
    Cold Country in Europe
    Technology is not by default progressive for man. It is what you make of it. Shoot, make me a luddite. That is ridicilous more than anything.

    I believe there are two different aspects on this whole Steam issue. First it's preference, if you like it or not. I don't care about that. Second is that it is required to be installed for playing a game.

    Blizzard got battle.net integrated in the game, Bioware got update feature in game launcher. There is no whatsoever need to make Steam mandatory. It should be optional, having to install additional software is moving in the wrong direction. What if every developer will do this? Do you want to have Steam and five clones just to be able to run your games?
     
  11. Osama Bin Davis

    Osama Bin Davis Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Many large companies don't bother having a real customer service model, because they dont really need them. Why? because your average customer will sign anything put under their nose without knowing what they are signing, when something breaks they will just buy a new one (ie iphone/ipod).

    Ive had to deal with steam customer support and they are useless, but they can get away with it, how many people are really going to chase a company through their customer service when they don't reply to emails? it seems to me people (and for some weird reason americans especially) just let big companies get away with anything they like, which I dont understand.
     
  12. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    13,100
    Location:
    Missouri
    While I agree with you, your making a statement based off of the consumer outlook, not the developer.

    Both myself and others have already replied to this, .... <removed, as I didn't feel like repeating the same argument again>.
     
  13. K1ler

    K1ler Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    I still do not understand why do I have to install Steam once I bought a physical medium. If I wanted to use Steam, I would install it and bought the game there. Is it more convenient? Of course it is, IF I wanted to buy the game online. But I do not want to. I want a physical copy. Does it stop piracy? No, it supports it as you can download and play the game without the :):):):) called Steam ever touching your PC. Not to mention the fact, which makes some people wonder, that even today not everyone has internet access. That is the reason why he/she bought a physical copy in the first place. So I understand Steam as a distribution channel for people who prefer to have the game quickly and easily. But I totaly do not understand why is it FORCED on people who do not want it.
     
  14. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    13,100
    Location:
    Missouri
    It also depends on the person. For instance, several years ago my wife and I looked into getting an ING account. All the reviews we read said customer service sucks and if you have a problem, don't bother asking. We still chose to get an account there, but that's simply because we're very familiar with online banking and our jobs are in the banking field. We've never had a problem with them, though we've only been there two or three years.

    My point is, sometimes people will accept something even if they hear the customer service is bad, simply because they feel they're qualified enough if a problem arises, or if they know someone that can fix it, or help them fix it. If I have a problem with Steam, I know of several people here on the forums I'd go to for help. There's no way I'm calling Steams customer support.
     
  15. yeti101

    yeti101 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    economics, its easier and cheaper for 2k to support 1 version of the game rather than 2. Shame for poeple who dont want steam, as for requiring internet access well it states it on the box internet is a requirement for authentication. That isnt unique in 2010.

    for piracy i would be absolutely astounded if any developer/publisher sighted "anti-piracy" as a reason for joining the steam platform. All steam games have been pirated. The way it reduces piracy is by satisfying poeple like me who dont want the hassel of physical media to play their games and want a covenient way to purchase products.

    the fact is distributing on steam makes 2k more money. It offers them a way to sell more of their games than just civ 5. That is how valve market steam and it obviously works.

    Oh the person complaining they dont answer emails. Raise a problem ticket i find they respond quite fast. They have 25 million users if your sending them an email it says your problem isnt serious and they have zero obligation to respond. A problem ticket they must take action, you can even view updates by valve employees on your ticket and see its progress.
     
  16. K1ler

    K1ler Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Yes, but who buys a boxed game personaly? I do not, I am ordering physical copies. And many shops do not give me that information. But the problem is that when someone without internet connection wants to play a Steam requring game, he is out of luck.

    Of course, I understand why games are distributed via Steam and I have nothing against that :) But why, when they invest time and money to have the game on a physical DVD, is there Steam as well? Obviously it does not serve as a distributing platform in this case. And that is my question. What purpose does Steam have on physical copies? I know one, to annoy customers.
     
  17. yeti101

    yeti101 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    they distribute both ways. This is becuase theres alot of poeple who prefer to use steam and download. They have a physical version for those who prefer that.

    To have a hard copy (disc) without steam would mean programming 2 versions of the same game. All the programming that intergrates the game into steam would need to be removed. More time/costs & hassel for the dev. Why code 2 games when you can just code 1? You should always check the minimum requirements before purchasing any game if an online shop doesnt have it its a bad shop, you should check the devs website for minimum spec.

    Online authentication has been around for years yes a hassel for those without internet but how many poeple is that?
     
  18. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,778
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Steam has an offline mode, you just only need to go online for initial activation and patches.

    As for physical copies, for a game like Civ5 it would lose a LOT of ales if there wasn't a presence in stores, as evident by the number of people who only discovered Steam because of Civ5.
     
  19. Jharii

    Jharii King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Walled Lake, MI
    Your "purpose" really is not a purpose.

    There's another one that is far more logical and less biased and cynical. There are still a lot of people that have low bandwidth such as dial-up. Downloading and installing is simply not efficient, at all, for that consumer. The connection is still plenty fast enough for a simple key validation.
     
  20. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    My problem ticket has been open for about 16 hours now and as far as I can tell, no one at Steam/Valve has taken a moment to look at it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page