Steam - love or hate?

[K1ler]

To have a hard copy (disc) without steam would mean programming 2 versions of the same game. All the programming that intergrates the game into steam would need to be removed. More time/costs & hassel for the dev. Why code 2 games when you can just code 1? You should always check the minimum requirements before purchasing any game if an online shop doesnt have it its a bad shop, you should check the devs website for minimum spec.

No, it does not. How come it is possible to download a Steamless version in the same day the game is launched? All everyone here says are excuses but not a single valid argument why is there Steam on a physical copy. But I agree that shop without this info is a bad one.

 

[yeti101]

My problem ticket has been open for about 16 hours now and as far as I can tell, no one at Steam/Valve has taken a moment to look at it.

i do IT support our SLA (service level agreement) is 16 working hours thats 2 days. Last time i had a problem with steam i got a response in 24 hours. You remind me of some of my customers, some seem to think theyre the only ones who have incidents raised and i support 5000 people not 25 million like valve.

No, it does not. How come it is possible to download a Steamless version in the same day the game is launched

i have no idea but if its easy then 2k do it for other reasons ill take a wild guess and say money. I bet 2k gets a bigger cut if steam is compulsory as opposed to a non steam & steam version like bioshock was. Valves strategy has always been to get as big a user base as possible. They dont really care whos games they are selling as long as they get peeps on the steam platform it grows. If steams compulsory it means more people will be on it- better chance to sell more games- more profit. 2k must get a better deal to make it compulsory.

I'd like to know all the juicy contractual arrangements they make with other publishers but i doubt they will tell us.

 

[K1ler]

Your "purpose" really is not a purpose.

There's another one that is far more logical and less biased and cynical. There are still a lot of people that have low bandwidth such as dial-up. Downloading and installing is simply not efficient, at all, for that consumer. The connection is still plenty fast enough for a simple key validation.

Yet again you answer question I did not ask. Why is Steam on a physical disc? For online validation. Oh come one. Why can I not validate my copy without installing intrusive and annoying program? It works with other games just fine.

 

[Jharii]

Yet again you answer question I did not ask. Why is Steam on a physical disc? For online validation. Oh come one. Why can I not validate my copy without installing intrusive and annoying program? It works with other games just fine.

Yet again? Have I responded to you before?

Firaxis has an agreement with Steam for distribution purposes. Steam is used as validation. Including Steam on the DVD is no different than including the game on the DVD; so it does not have to be directly downloaded. 150mb is a considerably large download for those on 56k modems.

It's for convenience.

I work for a software company that uses SQL as its database solution. We include SQL on our distributed CD. Why? Because it is convenient to have it on the CD for the consumer. It's a prerequisite for the program, so it's logical to include it on the CD so they do not have to worry about locating the site and downloading it.

It's very simple if you apply some basic logic to it.

 

[K1ler]

Yet again? Have I responded to you before?

Firaxis has an agreement with Steam for distribution purposes. Steam is used as validation. Including Steam on the DVD is no different than including the game on the DVD; so it does not have to be directly downloaded. 150mb is a considerably large download for those on 56k modems.

It's for convenience.

Oh, so I was right. It is useless, it does not have to be there and the only reason it is included is that 2K or Firaxis or whoever wants it there thus annoy some customers. Well few years back I was checking if a game does or does not have Starforce. I would have never guessed the day will come I will have to check if a game does or does not have Steam... Your comparison is not exact. Every Steam game can run just fine without Steam. I doubt your database would so easily run without the SQL¨.

 

[Jharii]

Oh, so I was right. It is useless, it does not have to be there and the only reason it is included is that 2K or Firaxis or whoever wants it there thus annoy some customers. Well few years back I was checking if a game does or does not have Starforce. I would never guessed the day will come I will have to check if a game does or does not have Steam...

No, it's not useless. Convenience does not equate to uselessness. If you're annoyed by it, don't install it from the DVD.

I am certain that there are many people that find it useful that Steam is included. You just happen to not be one of those people. Kudos to you.

FYI, only you can decide if it is useless to you. You cannot make that determination for everyone. They can do that on their own. If you don't feel that people are intelligent enough to make that assessment, than you would also likely presume that they are not intelligent enough to locate Steam on their own, therefore including it on the DVD would be necessary for Firaxis.

 

[McLMan]

My problem ticket has been open for about 16 hours now and as far as I can tell, no one at Steam/Valve has taken a moment to look at it.

Mesix,

Firstly. Thanks for your service from someone who truly appreciates what you do.

Unfortunately Steam takes a long time to answer support tickets. I needed support about a year ago and it took 6 days for it to get resolved. Definitely the biggest drawback of Steam IMO.

 

[K1ler]

No, it's not useless. Convenience does not equate to uselessness. If you're annoyed by it, don't install it from the DVD.

I am certain that there are many people that find it useful that Steam is included. You just happen to not be one of those people. Kudos to you.

FYI, only you can decide if it is useless to you. You cannot make that determination for everyone. They can do that on their own. If you don't feel that people are intelligent enough to make that assessment, than you would also likely presume that they are not intelligent enough to locate Steam on their own, therefore including it on the DVD would be necessary for Firaxis.

But I completely agree with you. I think that people are inteligent enough to decide whether they do or do not want to use Steam. The problem is that we do not have the possibility of chosing not to install Steam (well we do, but then we can not play the game). But that all comes from that (for me totaly illogical) connection of 2K Games and Valve's Steam for physical discs.

 

[Crezth]

But I completely agree with you. I think that people are inteligent enough to decide whether they do or do not want to use Steam. The problem is that we do not have the possibility of chosing not to install Steam (well we do, but then we can not play the game). But that all comes from that (for me totaly illogical) connection of 2K Games and Valve's Steam for physical discs.

It was either this or some other invasive DRM. Pick your poison.

 

[yeti101]

But I completely agree with you. I think that people are inteligent enough to decide whether they do or do not want to use Steam. The problem is that we do not have the possibility of chosing not to install Steam (well we do, but then we can not play the game). But that all comes from that (for me totaly illogical) connection of 2K Games and Valve's Steam for physical discs.

its not illogical for 2k if it means they get more money by making steam compulsory. If there was nothing in it for 2k do you honestly think they would make steam compulsory?

 

[Kryhavok]

Can someone tell me what exactly about Steam makes it intrusive or invasive?

 

[Methos]

Moderator Action: Remember to discuss the issue, not each other. It's turning into a 'me vs. you' discussion, rather then about Steam.

 

[zonk]

Moderator Action: Remember to discuss the issue, not each other. It's turning into a 'me vs. you' discussion, rather then about Steam.

I blame Steam for that...

 

[tom2050]

Yet again? Have I responded to you before?

Firaxis has an agreement with Steam for distribution purposes. Steam is used as validation. Including Steam on the DVD is no different than including the game on the DVD; so it does not have to be directly downloaded. 150mb is a considerably large download for those on 56k modems.

It's for convenience.

I work for a software company that uses SQL as its database solution. We include SQL on our distributed CD. Why? Because it is convenient to have it on the CD for the consumer. It's a prerequisite for the program, so it's logical to include it on the CD so they do not have to worry about locating the site and downloading it.

It's very simple if you apply some basic logic to it.

Oh that is funny. 150MB a big download for modem users. And Valve did that for convienence to the customer. Wait, what about Valve forcing internet for install, and then the modem user having to download the 1 GB patch, even though they bought the game from the store? "Oh, but that's different"

Of course it is, it's always different.

Can someone tell me what exactly about Steam makes it intrusive or invasive?

It's really their subscriber agreement... they have the right to do all kinds of stuff, such as close your account, suspend your account, for pretty much any reason (you lose all your money and games), you have no recourse other than write a letter asking if you can play your $900 worth of games; and wait for however long for them not to do so. They have people monitor online games, and if you don't follow the rules, they can lock you out of playing your own game. Might not happen very often, because it's bad for business to do so, but it does happen. Just the tip of the deep deep iceberg called the Steam subscriber agreement.

 

[Jharii]

Oh that is funny. 150MB a big download for modem users. And Valve did that for convienence to the customer. Wait, what about Valve forcing internet for install, and then the modem user having to download the 1 GB patch, even though they bought the game from the store? "Oh, but that's different"

Of course it is, it's always different.

Did you have an actual counterpoint, or just sarcasm, because that alone does not invalidate any point that I made.

And a patch is a patch. If someone wants it, this needs to be downloaded regardless of the size, so whatever impact you think that has on what is included on the DVD is a completely moot point.

It's really their subscriber agreement... they have the right to do all kinds of stuff, such as close your account, suspend your account, for pretty much any reason (you lose all your money and games), you have no recourse other than write a letter asking if you can play your $900 worth of games; and wait for however long for them not to do so. They have people monitor online games, and if you don't follow the rules, they can lock you out of playing your own game. Might not happen very often, because it's bad for business to do so, but it does happen. Just the tip of the deep deep iceberg called the Steam subscriber agreement.

Care to back that up with some actual instances, or is this just speculation and theory with a touch of hear-say?

 

[Kerosene31]

I don't miss having to manually download patches. I start Steam and everything updates automatically (what a terrible, intrusive thing!)

Back in the day when a patch came out you had to hunt for mirrors, often having to register on some download site and deal with slow connections, etc. I don't miss that one bit. Back then you had to watch forums to even know there was a patch to download.

Yesterday I fired up Steam and got my free DLC and the last patch automatically.

 

[Robin_Cox]

Steam is absolutely fantastic. I don't have to go looking for the latest patch any more, Steam fixes this for me. And it is also very easy to find and install mods.

 

[Jharii]

Steam is absolutely fantastic. I don't have to go looking for the latest patch any more, Steam fixes this for me. And it is also very easy to find and install mods.

Oh! And it's easy to shop all games, view videos, and download the demos. All from one place. And even go onto the Steam forums dedicated to the game and read what others are saying.

This easily sates my hunger to buy things compulsively.

 

[tom2050]

Did you have an actual counterpoint, or just sarcasm, because that alone does not invalidate any point that I made.

And a patch is a patch. If someone wants it, this needs to be downloaded regardless of the size, so whatever impact you think that has on what is included on the DVD is a completely moot point.



Care to back that up with some actual instances, or is this just speculation and theory with a touch of hear-say?

Didn't mean to make you squirm around with no answers. Read the subscriber agreement, and you'll see it's all in there. "Oh Wait, that may be too much work for you to read something, plus you would have to understand it" I guess you can go on with the "It's a big conspiracy against me" type thing.

 

[Jharii]

Didn't mean to make you squirm around with no answers. Read the subscriber agreement, and you'll see it's all in there. "Oh Wait, that may be too much work for you to read something, plus you would have to understand it" I guess you can go on with the "It's a big conspiracy against me" type thing.

They have actual documented instances of this happening in the license agreement? I will have to read it again. I must have missed that the first time around. That would definitely make license agreements much more entertaining to read if they were included.