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Steam - love or hate?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by oogabla, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    "kbps" stands for "kilobits per second". I'm not sure of your logic here.
     
  2. rbj2001

    rbj2001 Warlord

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    500 kbps, as in 0.0625 Megabytes per second. Not uncommon in rural England. Average in the UK is maybe 4x that.
     
  3. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    I think GBunny had a typo, he probably meant he has 300kBps, the capital B means byte and a lower case b is for bits, a byte being 8 times that of a bit.
     
  4. Genocidicbunny

    Genocidicbunny Bug squasher

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    From my experience kbit is kilobits per second and kbps/KBps is kilobytes. YMMV -- there's a lack of standardization with this.

    Yeah I did mean kilobytes per second. But, see my above.
     
  5. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I mean I am playing the game and the game stops running. Usually refered to as crash to desktop. I have heard of others refering to this as ctd.

    It does not seem to put a log in the event log. Presumably you would expect it to be in event viewer, application, source = Civilsation V? There is nothing in there for that. It tends to happen more later in the game, and happens a lot less after a recent update, but it still happens far too often, and it really putting me off playing the game.
     
  6. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    Thanks. Yeah, that is not Steam related. Firaxis's latest patch does do a lot to address this, as you have noticed firsthand. If you are experiencing it still, then I would report this and provide the save game (from the autosave) so they can investigate this further.
     
  7. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    The steam bit is that after this happens it sometimes forgets I have logged in, and I cannot reload my game until I get online again.
     
  8. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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  9. Wardancing

    Wardancing Warlord

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    A seperate program for dishing out adverts, the ability to use a product without steam, and lose functionality of things (like achievements)... sounds good to me.

    What i dont understand, is why everyone thinks steam is such an awsome thing, but i never seem to see the steam logo on commercials for steam-mandatory games?

    I could swear i just saw a CoD Black Ops commercial, and at the end of it, when im bombarded by company logos, there is no steam logo, why? If anything, a steam-mandatory game should be forced to use the logo in their commercials and advertisements. It's a good advert. You like steam? Heres their logo to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You dont like steam? Heres your warning.
     
  10. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Because most blops is sold on consoles?
     
  11. Genocidicbunny

    Genocidicbunny Bug squasher

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    Because using the Steam logo means paying money to Valve to get a license to use the logo.
     
  12. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

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    You're a paranoid luddite ( ;) In good humor, you did ask me to!)

    I don't mean to speak for Jharri but I think the contention is not "no data is being sent" but that the data being sent is benign, mundane stuff like client-server back and forth. Nothing about Offline mode promises you some sort of autistic (not the human, medical kind) program that is completely severed from the internet. The 'Offline' for Offline Mode is the ability to play games... offline. Applying your own definitions to it and demanding it fit those definitions isn't really a productive argument at all.

    I could argue that Steam is a misleading name since it isn't really steam at all, since it is not the visible white mist that condenses around boiling water as hot vapor mixes with cool air. I could argue that, but it would dumb and silly.

    The complaint, as I understand it from you and others, is that Steam in Offline Mode should not have any communication with anything at all. You're entitled to that opinion, but again, that strikes me as a very niche interest and concern, because it doesn't have any actual effect on 99.999% of consumers.

    While it's true that we don't know exactly what is being communicated, it is also true that a REASONABLE person can understand that it's probably some simple form of communication regarding usage and nothing critical or malicious.

    It's true that Valve could have devised some highly advanced and sinister process that manages to scan your computer using very little processing power to find vital information like social security numbers and then, using very little tiny packets, relay that information back to them, to compile in some nefarious database.

    It's also true that Valve could be networking the computers of all it's users together and using that combined processing power to hack DoD Sat Comm and selling the information to the highest bidder. You know, if they were a secret front for SPECTRE.

    You complain of people dismissing your concerns as if dismissing concerns is somehow 'cheating.' It's perfectly acceptable to dismiss concerns, especially if you deem them irrational. I feel comfortable saying that the concerns over packets being relayed in offline mode are irrational, in my judgment.

    * * * * *

    As an aside, I play in Offline Mode actually MOST of the time I play, since I use a laptop to do all my computing, and I move across a university campus throughout some of the day, and take my laptop to work with me. It's very handy and I have not had any trouble with it.

    The only time I had trouble playing offline was when playing Dawn of Discovery, and that was because Ubisoft had a second layer of it's own DRM that did not have an Offline mode (if you were offline, hilariously enough, the game would load and play, but the colors would be inverted - brown would be neon blue, etc. and your citizens would be very unhappy with you and rioting, no matter what you did as a leader. Hah.)

    And eventually, the company patched out that DRM; they'd only intended to have the DRM for the first few months as some sort of experiment in seeing if putting DRM in a game at release then removing it would lower piracy around release.
     
  13. rbj2001

    rbj2001 Warlord

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    Because half the population (49.4%) dislikes having to use it while only 37.7% sees it positively (among Civ Fans at least). So advertising Steam would tend to put people off.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=396352
     
  14. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

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    People posting on Civ Fanatics aren't exactly a good sampling of consumers of video games. They might not even be a good sampling of consumers who play Civilization. :p

    Regardless, Steam is not generally a 'selling point.' Some people like it and think it is handy, some don't. Companies generally use Steam because they've decided they want to use it, and while I can't presume to know their reasons, I would guess that in many cases, many companies feel they get good exposure and/or sales out of the Steam Store.

    But users aren't really going to buy a game because of Steam. Games didn't typically brag about using Gamespy Arcade, either.

    I don't even know why we're talking about this. What's the implication, that they are 'hiding' Steam from the users? That if it was a good thing, that would mean it would be on commercials for it? What?
     
  15. Wardancing

    Wardancing Warlord

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    My point mentioning it, was that it does seem they try to hide the fact that games are steam-mandatory. Im a long time CoD player, and amongst the handful of clans that i visit forums for, none of them could give me a definate answer as to whether the latest game was steam-mandatory or not. They waited fairly long to announce it was steam-mandatory, and VAC protected in a BO PC FAQ.

    People keep saying that steam code is a large part of the software, so it cant work without it, cause its built upon it. So they must have known they were using steam a long time ago, no?

    If you like steam, you would want to know the game is built on steam no? Just like i dont like steam, and id like it to be there, so i can stay away from it.

    And lol @ having to pay to use the logo. If steam doesnt allow games that are 'built' upon steam's code to use the logo, then thats pretty fail.
     
  16. blind biker

    blind biker King

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    Steam is a net loss for the buyer. You cannot return a Steam-ed game, you cannot re-sell it and if someone at Steam decides that you have cheated, that your breath stinks or your nose is crooked, they can revoke your license, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. And one day when Steam won't be around, you won't be able to pay any of the Steam-ed games. Save me the BS about their "promise" to release patches to make games playable without Steam: Valve didn't sign any binding contract to do that. If Valve was anywhere near bankruptcy, the last thing on their mind would be to dedicate developers and distribution resources for such patches - since they have no legal obligation to do that.

    If I buy a non-DRM game from a retail shop or second hand via eBay or otherwise, that game is mine to do what I want. First Sale applies and I can re-sell it. If bought new and it doesn't work on my computer, I can return it to the shop - at least here in Europe where consumer protection of some sort exists!
     
  17. Maktaka

    Maktaka Warlord

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    Including the Steam logo in the ad is advertising for Steam. It won't be included unless it's part of the contract to use Steamworks (which it apparently isn't) or Steam pays for it. Same reason product names are blurred in television shows. Product placement is advertising, even in a commercial for a product that uses your product, and nobody get free advertising in media.
     
  18. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

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    See, this is the difference. I like Steam. I don't love Steam. I won't buy a game just because it has Steam (although if I see it on Steam, I might be more likely to buy it because I saw it).

    I like Steam, from a conceptual standpoint because it gives smaller developers a more cost-effective way to publish and get their products into a large market, which is better for the video game industry because it allows new ideas to emerge from more places. If every game cost a lot to develop and publish and had to have major distribution connections, then you'd basically only get games from EA, so digital distribution in general is a big boon in the modern era of high production costs.

    I like Steam, from a personal standpoint, because I find it a convenient way to manage my games and products.

    But again, these aren't selling points to a consumer, for a game. Developers don't use Steam because their consumers will be excited by the fact that it's a Steam game (unless MAYBE it's a multiplayer game with user-created servers and frequent patches sort of like Team Fortress 2 where being part of Steam makes the online play and navigation much easier), they use it because THEY want to use it.


    If Toshiba uses a certain brand of RAM for it's computers because it's cheaper, you don't advertise Toshiba laptops as "we have the cheapest RAM around in our computers!" You advertise the lower cost of your product for the consumer. Because buying cost-effective RAM is a benefit for Toshiba.

    The commercials for Toshiba computers aren't aimed at Toshiba executives.
     
  19. Jharii

    Jharii King

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    No, you pretty much summed it up.

    What is the point of DRM if you can just install the software on multiple machines and switch them all to offline mode? I would actually EXPECT the Steam client to send out a packet or two on occasion to make sure people were not trying to pull one over on the system.

    The fact that the test results exhibited an actual behavioral change in Steam would lead me to believe that whatever Steam is doing in offline mode is different than online mode. One could easily conclued that based on this, it was intended behavior. But only Steam can answer that with certainty.
     
  20. Wardancing

    Wardancing Warlord

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    Any game that uses the UT3 engine usually brags about it. I dont think UT3 makers are paying for it. Also, your example of TV shows blurring logos, doesnt seem to be a good fit here. Supposedly Steam is the foundation of the code to the product, whereas in tv shows, i dont think you could say any product that gets blurred had any value in the thought or creation of the said tv show.

    But maybe youre right. Maybe the steam contract doesnt allow the game companies to use the steam logo. I guess it can also be possible, through said contract to have game companies report steam-mandatory last minute too, to keep those preorders rolling in.
     
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