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Steam made me quit Civilization for good

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by garhent, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I think he means he would have been getting paid $65 for each of those 6 hours he spend on fixing CiV. That plus the $60 for the game = $390, so I think he means US dollars.

    Uh...what? What does this have anything to do with anything? Furthermore, what are you even talking about?

    Things like Steam are why the publishers have to put more effort into making their game worthwhile. With so many games to choose from, they have to make sure they make theirs the best deal so you will buy it. Furthermore, since if you buy it and don't like it you will go complain on forums such as this one, they will lose sales if you are not satisfied. Lots of sales. Especially because Steam is always selling their product, as opposed to retail which rotates out its stock.

    They care because you will buy the next one if they do it right. That's why there are free updates, modding support, and DLC. DLC is a good model because you pay only for the things you actually want, but if you actually value the content for the value you pay then the developers get their share as well.

    The only "top-down control" and crazy conspiracy stuff you seem to be talking about that is remotely true is the fact that you can't resale games on Steam. Which is a good thing for the games industry. Resales give the developers no profits, and in fact reduce their sales just like pirating.

    Your post also makes no sense. You say Steam is terrible, then proceed to claim it runs fine? And then you say that CiV is terrible, which is again not the fault of Steam or Sid Meier. Then you argue that Civ1 was better with no backup. And finally you blame Sid Meier for...I don't even know, because you didn't back up your argument.
     
  2. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Resale of games only really hurts the profits of publishers because the middlemen aka retail stores seek to profit from the trading of used games. When you do something like trade in 5 used games for 1 new one, you're essentially making a donation to that retailer. The publishers of course would prefer you to be that charitable to themselves. After all they are the ones who financed (probably) the game and marketed it etc. They need the royalties from sales in order for their business to be viable.

    It's a zero-sum game and preventing resale of games is only really "good for the industry" from the publisher perspective because they reduce the potential profits of retailers in order to increase their own. It's perfectly rational behaviour in a capitalist system. It might not be the best idea if some of the important retailers really needed those profits from resales in order to survive. I doubt that though. I think those retailers had just found an insanely lucrative trade and needed to be reeled in.
     
  3. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    True, but lack of retail does other things as well. A publisher gets so much of the money because they need to finance the game, which means paying:
    1) Manufacturer
    2) Distributor
    3) Advertiser
    4) Retail
    5) Developers

    Steam IS the manufacturer, distributor, advertiser, and retail. This means that the publisher needs only pay Steam and the developers. So more money does, in the end, go to developers when you buy on Steam. The lack of resales just makes it more profitable for the publisher, correct, but that also allows them to finance the project more because they know they will get more profits. So still a win for developers, Steam, publishers, and ultimately customers, who get a better game in the end.
     
  4. Becomedeath

    Becomedeath The Destroyer

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    Who exactly pays you to play? I strongly suspect the answer is nobody and therefore this is an utterly misguided point.

    Are you trying to say that your time is better spent doing someting else? I'm not sure that there is a video game out there that would justify $65/ph as an investment. If it means that much to you, I'd spend more time working and less time wasting it away on games. Measuring your hourly rate at work against your leisure time never makes for a good argument, it's half epeen and half nerdrage as, as I implied earlier, nobody actually pays you to play.

    Modern games often need tinkering with, be it through amending settings, patches or installing certain releases of paralell software. Patches in particular can cause more problems than they fix and whether or not Civ was on Steam it would have patches. Civ4 did and while it didn't encounter the issues that Civ5 has that's more to do with the frequency of patches, the complexity of the game and changes in technology which made regular patches easier to manage than they had been previously. But giving up becuase you've had to spend a short while working on it sounds more of a waste of time than fixing the game does in my opinion.

    Incidentally, you might want to buy my version of the game which works fine, although by your rationale my copy is worth £75,900 so you might need to get some overtime in. ;)
     
  5. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

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    Yeah, like sariously :coffee:

    If you are not satified maybe you don't buy the product again. But you've already bought it. And the truth of it is that most games that are bought aren't played much.

    You are right on the last point ... in agreement with me. But, don't you think this sounds like conspiracy craziness? :scan:

    Companies conspiring to increase their revenues? Sounds like "crazy conspiracy" to me! :lol:
     
  6. jtb1127

    jtb1127 Deity

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    Don't quit civilization for good. Keep playing BTS.
     
  7. lynxxyarly

    lynxxyarly Warlord

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    my car doesn't work, even though I drove it hard and never took care of it. I blame you, General Motors.
     
  8. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    I think that analogy works better if General Motors sent you your car in pieces but never advertised this.
     
  9. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Congratulations! You've managed to confuse me some more, and while that usually frustrates me, I can find nothing to be upset about. I am just vaguely confuzzled. That doesn't happen.

    Um...care to elaborate? I still have no idea what you are talking about, and it doesn't seem like you actually disagreed with me about anything, while simultaneously disagreeing with me about everything... :crazyeye:
     
  10. Songkok

    Songkok Chieftain

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    But they did send a guy (steam) to come fixed up the pieces for you, though you couldn't use the car when he is installing the pieces. and some time the guy need to go and bring back more pieces even though you think there is nothing wrong with those replaced parts (steam re-downloading the whole game).
     
  11. spider1

    spider1 Prince

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    I hated Steam myself at first. Civ V was my first exposure to Steam. But after a while, I came to appreciate the Steam method of delivering updates and content, and now I like it.
     
  12. ShunNakamura

    ShunNakamura Warlord

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    I might tolerate steam, but it is very much off-putting. I don't mind it being there as an option. But forcing the choice galls me.

    Moderator Action: *snip* we don't have any tolerance for piracy here. Turns out the game isn't my cup of tea so good thing I got the game as part of another purchase. But my point is, when the pirated copies work better 'out-of-the-box' than the legit copies there is a serious problem! I don't like pirating just so that I can play something I bought . . or in this case received as a thank you gift for using a certain retailer. Not as bad in that case but still annoying).

    The kick to reselling is another pet peeve of mine, but meh(in this day and age fewer games are going 'out of print' so reselling isn't quite as necessary as before, but I still like it being an option). Before I tried it I found the resell issue annoying, but otherwise thought steam was a fairly good idea(I am surprised it took as long as it did for digital distribution to become big). After using it. Well my friends are definitely getting their 'I told you so's in! Speaking of friends for a good number of them, if they buy a game requiring steam don't even bother with steam and just look for a pirated version. Less hassle they say(I don't play that many games and most of those I do don't require steam, so I am not sure it is always less hassle, but in the cases I have used it it sure seems that way).


    Sadly this is what is keeping me from picking up CiV myself(rather than bumming turns off a friend). I am on the fence on whether CiV is worth fighting with Steam over it. I'll probably just stick to my Visual Novels(not like I have so much free time that I'll get through them and get bored and need CiV anyways). They have internet-based DRM, but haven't had any issue with them!


    Anyways I am fine with steam being an option(digital distribution is certainly a good thing in general), but I got enough issues with them that I won't use them. Particularly not after the previous harrowing experiences I have had with them where the copy I bought doesn't work, but pirate it and it works just fine without any issues. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me; Fool me thrice, and boy am I mad. Three strikes and your out. That's it!
     
  13. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    First of all, piracy isn't cool. Ever. Secondly, either your internet was having a bad day or you needed to choose a better download region (or something else was throttling your download). Steam downloads very quickly (indeed, it's always been pretty damn good at downloading as fast as my internet allows it too) most of the time and the only time I've had it slow down was during large sales or when multiple games released on the same couple of days and even then I just changed my download region to South Korea and it worked fine.
     
  14. ShunNakamura

    ShunNakamura Warlord

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    Trust me, I am not condoning piracy. Just this week I blew 100+ on games to enjoy. Quite frankly I like buying my games. I also like to be able to play them though. . . And once bought I'll jump through holes I otherwise wouldn't to actually be able to play what I bought. That is what my comment was supposed to demonstrate.

    As for the steam comparison I did do other downloads on that day through other programs as well as an online game. The other programs were netting 100k+ down speed when I used them. But switch them off and Steam on and steam pulls ~40k down. Not bad I suppose(I have seen worse), but I have seen torrents with practically no seeders break that easily. And when I torrent for Linux distros I get a whole 2-4 gigs in an eye-blink. However, my internet can be spotty. The only provider in the area provides good speeds but has a bad habit of cutting out on certain days ~i.e. there will be one day per month where it won't stay up for more than a couple minutes at a time(the days I used steam to download though were good ones, the cutting has, however, caused issues with me actually launching through steam, my bad luck that I wanted to try Shogun 2 on the one day that month my internet decides to bomb).

    I suppose the region thing could be the issue with download speeds. Though the region in my settings(just double checked) is relatively close. Only one looks closer and it isn't that much closer. Might have less traffic though? Also maybe I am just spoiled on download speeds. I tend to consider anything less than 200k as at best decent. Less than 100k makes me wince.
     
  15. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Try changing your download region then? I get 400kB/s usually which is what my connection allows. If not, usually at least 200kB/s.
     
  16. Keejus

    Keejus Prince

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    Or, more accurately, if they built the car and later developed some new and improved headlights, but refused to install them in your car for free.
     
  17. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    Well, if they initially shipped the car with pieces of yellow cartboard where the headlights are supposed to be and then start sending you all the seperate pieces, which can't be put in unless you also install their other components that completely change the way the car drives but at least makes it a bit less likely to explode.

    I think the problem is not as much the rather lackluster or occasionaly downright pointless patch changes but the smelly wreck they initially got shipped after having been showed a beautiful racecar.


    And on a seperate note, Steam is a piece of excrement in my experience.
     
  18. Breezin

    Breezin Warlord

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    In my first post on Fanatics, I will say that I never really used Steam prior to Civ V except to play Half-life and kind of resented having it.

    However, because of the Civ V requirement I've been exposed daily and have grown to love it. It's the only way I purchase games now and wouldn't want to go back.

    That being said, I can understand and respect the opinion of those who hate Steam because I too was in the same position not so long ago. All I can say is give it a chance.
     
  19. Vladesch

    Vladesch Warlord

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    get a modified steam_api.dll
    I imagine you can work out where to look for it.
    (Not going to push my luck posting links here)
    Moderator Action: Advocating piracy is even without links against the forum rules.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Make sure to rename the old one. You might want to get patches occasionally.

    That said, your problems aren't because of steam, as others have pointed out.
     
  20. HorribleHarald

    HorribleHarald Warlord

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    Most of all I hate this Steam and CIV5 forced marriage. At first when I bought the game I got too old version of Steam, it did not worked. I toke some time to find proper version.
    When I got bored, this Steam popped up every time I started computer so I had to uninstalled it. Now when I want to go back to see what is happened this game so far and how it's developed, it's a big step to find again proper Steam version, install it and so again. I don't like Steam at all, it's just a crap for me.
    Hopefully I have BTS and it don't need any extra applications, just run the game.
     

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