Steampunk Alt History Brainstorming Thread

[steampunk1880]

This is a thread for proposing techs, civics, wonders, buildings and units for the proposed "Steampunk" alternate history and for debate on their overall design philosophy(How it is different from its contemporary regular history)

Suggestions that are not objected to in 24 hours or whose objections have been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties go up on the list. Objects on the list will be credited to their original suggesters.

When making suggestions about technologies it is helpful but NOT necessary to also suggest what tech(s) the technology may come from and what it may lead to, what civis, buildings, wonders and what units might be attached to it or provide an involved civilopedia entry but ask that you include a note about what it entails to guide people in finding appropriate connections with other suggested techs, civics, wonders, buildings and units. Suggested format below:
Tech name
Requires:
Leads to:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes:

When making suggestions about Civics it is helpful but NOT necessary to link them to a technology or give it an involved civiloedia entry but we ask you to include a detailed account of what the civic does. Please refer to existing civics for examples of what can and probably should be be done by a civic.

When making suggestions about wonders it is helpful but NOT necessary to link them to a tech or to provide an involved civilopedia entry but we ask you to include other building and resource requirements, it's proposed effects, and some notes about what it entails to help people connect it to appropriate techs. Suggested format below:
Wonder name
Requires: technology/building/resource
Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes:

Buildings are similar
Building Name
Requires: technology/buildings/resources
Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes:

When making suggestions about units it is helpful but NOT necessary to link them to a tech or provide a long civilopedia entry but we ask you to include other building and resource requirements, a detailed account of the units stats including what category it is, and some notes about what it entails to help people connect it to appropriate techs and buildings.
Unit Name
Requires: technology/building/resource
Stats:unit type(flying, gunpowder, high tech)/strength, speed, first strikes/bonuses or penalties/free upgrades
Civilopedia:
Notes:

The object is to get as many ideas up in a coherent list as possible and worry about putting them together later.

While we are brainstorming connections can be made in the following way:
Hey I think unit X belongs under tech Y. I agree. Me too. *relevant entries have been changed*
Hey I think tech 1 should lead to tech 2. I agree. Me too. *relevant entries have been changed*

Changes to existing entries are made in a similar fashion.
Hey I think Building A is too powerful/not powerful enough and should be This Way. I agree. Me too. Let's ask/PM the original contributor if he/she has any input about the proposed changes. Everyone agrees? *relevant entries have been changed*"
Hey I think Unit Alpha is redundant/no longer fits and should be removed. I agree. Me too. Let's ask/PM the original contributor how he/she feels about that. Everyone agrees? *entry deleted*

 

[steampunk1880]

Technologies

Computing Engines - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires:
Leads to: Algorithmic Efficiency and Improved Steam Engine and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Municipal Computing Engine
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: this is my candidate for some kind of initial steampunk tech which leads to all the other stuff.

Improved Steam Engine - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Computing Engine and Algorithmic Efficiency and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: computer aided boiler and piston design lead to engines that are overall more powerful and compact than before. I'm thinking there can be a whole family of these types of techs, improved, advanced, superior, mad. You might be able to use this for the first set of steampunk factory type buildings.

Locomotives - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Computing Engines and...
Leads to: Traction Engines and...
Civics:
Wonders: Grand Central Station (already exists), mining inc (already exists)
Buildings: Railroad Station (already exists), mining inc survey (already exists)
Units: War Train
Special Effects:OBSOLETES: Alhambra, River Authority, Smuggler's Shack, Canoe Builder's Hut; Allows construction of Locomotive Track. A railroad improvement which allows allows 15 movement per point but takes twice as long and is twice as expensive to build as Railroad Track
Civilopedia:
Notes: Steampunk equivalent of industrial tech: railroads. leads to techs for steam powered vehicles

Traction Engines - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Locomotives and...
Leads to: Armored Traction Engines and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Traction Engine Workshop, parking meters (already exists), Tire factory (already exists)
Units: War Wheel
Special Effects: road movement +1
Civilpedia:
Notes: early steam powered road vehicles for civilian use. COMPARE TO: Motorized Transporation

Armored Traction Engines - CREDIT: steampunk 1880
Requires: Traction engines and Improved Steam Engine and...
Leads to: ...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:Early Steam Tank
Special Effects:
Civilopedia
Notes: more powerful steam powered vehicles with armor and heavy guns. COMPARE TO: Armored Vehicles

Algorithmic Efficiency - CREDIT: steampunk 1880
Requres: Computing Engines and...
Leads to: Algorithmic Justice and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special Effects: +5 science from mathematics academies
Civilopedia:
Notes: Charles Babbage himself speculated that the widespread adoption of the analytical engine would encourage an interest in society for finding the most efficient way to do things using the new computers. this tech is first in a branching list of changes to society

Algorithmic Justice - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Algorithmic Efficiency and...
Leads to: Algorithmic Morality and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Panopticon Prison
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: Algorithmic efficiency's first application in society trying to quantify and provide mathematical formulas for justice, law and order.

Algorithmic Morality - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Algorithmic Justice and...
Leads to: ...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special effects:
Civilopedia:
Noes: Provides mathematical "proof" that ends justify the means and possibly leads to late steampunk era mad science techs as the scientific kooks are let loose on the population.

Ornithopters - CREDIT: Vokarya
Cost: 4200 (approximate)
Requires: Balloon Warfare, Locomotives,...
Leads to: Speeds up Flight
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units: Ornithopter
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: Ornithopters are flying machines with flapping wings. As these are steam-powered, they will not match the performance of even an Early Fighter.


+++++++++
Civics

Mad Scientists - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Category: Power
Tech Required:
Effects: 10 unhappy, 10 unhealth in 6 largest cities, -20% maintenance from distance to palace, all improvements grow at 50% speed, 30% science 30% hammers in all cities, increases local rebelliousness, increases national rebelliousness, allows construction of Mad Scientist's Castle
Civilopedia:
Notes: Mad Scientists take over as local government administrators and rule their lands like feudal fiefdoms reducing maintenance from distance. The population is largely reduced to being either minions or test subjects causing significant unhappiness, significant unhealthiness and an increased inclination to break out the torches and pitchforks (rebelliousness) with the tradeoff being signficant leaps in science and engineering.

=========
Wonders

_

 

[steampunk1880]

Buildings

Municipal Computing Engine - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Computing Engines/.../copper
Effects: 3 unhealth, +20% science, (+10% science with power), can turn 1 citizen into scientist.
Civilopedia
Notes: the city commissions the construction of a colossal timeshare computing engine for use by the local residents increasing science output. science increases more when it becomes electromechanical.

Traction Engine Workshop - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Traction Engines/.../Good (Tires), ...
Effects: 2 unhealth, 6 hammers, 3 gold, (+10% hammers with power), can turn 1 citizen into engineer, Required to build War Wheel, Steam Tank, ...,
Civilopedia:
Notes: COMPARE TO: Automobile Factory

Panopticon Prison - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Algorithmic Justice/.../...
Effects: 2 unhappy (plus 4 unhappy with Civic Proletariat), 4 espionage, 50% espionage, +10% maintenance, -30% war weariness, helps thwart rival spies, can turn 1 citizen into spy
Civilopedia
Notes:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
The panopticon was proposed in the late 18th century as a more efficient way of keeping an eye on prisoners and malcontents. A central "inspection house" which prisoners could not see inside held guards to keep an eye on the prison cells which lined the perimeter and were all visible at all times from the inspection house. I think this fits the theme of obsessively maximizing the efficiency of justice. But, quite possibly, the oridinary folk would think it creepy and a bit inhumane to be always watched and never know who's watching you.

Mad Scientist's Castle - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: .../.../.../Civic: Mad Scientists
Effects: 3 unhappy, 3 unhealthy, 15% science, -15% maintenance, increased local rebeliousness
Civilopedia
Notes: the local domicile for the resident mad scientist who controls the surrounding countryside with an iron fist and an army of weird science. Technological progress increases from his experiments and maintenance decreases because he and his capable minions handle some of the local government work. Random experiments on the population tends to upset people though.

Coal Fired Dynamo - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: .../.../Coal (in vicinity)
Effects: 6 unhealth, 9 hammers, Provides power, employs 1 citizen
Civilopedia:
Notes: Will probably need to be linked to steampunk era electricty tech equivalent and whatever we decide to call steampunk power lines. COMPARE TO: coal plant.

Wood Fired Dynamo - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: .../.../Prime Timber (in vicinity)
Effects: 4 unhealth, 6 hammers, provides power, employs 1 citizen
Civilopedia:
Notes: I don't recall my steampunk novels having much in the way of renewable energy...Windmills maybe... so i think we need a lot more buildings that involve burning things to produce energy

Peat Fired Dynamo - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: .../.../Peat (in vicinity)
Effects: 2 unhealth, 3 hammers, provides power, employs 1 citizen
Civilopedia
Notes: more burn stuff for energy

+++++++
Units

War Train (ntnl unit, limit 3) - CREDIT: steampunk 1880
Requires: Locomotives/coal
Stats: Wheeled/ 42 strength, 3 movement/Cannot Capture Cities/TERRAIN NATIVE: LOCOMOTIVE TRACK/National Unit (limit 3)
Civilopedia:
Notes: Terrain Native is used in the mechanos steampunk civ in a few Fall From Heaven modmods. What it means is that the unit can only move onto tiles that are its native terrain. In this case it means it is a powerful fast responder within your own borders (assuming you've spammed Locomotive Tracks everywhere) but almost certainly cannot travel far outside them unless you made a point to build locomotive tracks in your neighbors territories. As the war progresses and stuff like roads get pillaged and bombed, it becomes less and less useful.

War Wheel (ntnl unit, limit 15) - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires:Traction Engines/Traction Engine Workshop/coal, good (tires)
Stats: Recon/ 36 strength, 2 movement, 10% withdrawal chance/cannot attack, ignores terrain movement costs/Starts with Sentry 1, Guerilla 1, Woodsman 1.
Civilopedia
Notes: yep. a steam powered motorcycle.

Early Steam Tank (ntnl unit, limit 15) - CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires: Armored Traction Engines/Traction Engine Workshop/Coal, Iron or Steel
Stats: Wheeled/ 38 strength, 1 movement/Doesn't receive defensive bonuses/Starts with blitz/ +1 gold unit cost
Civilopedia:
Notes: aaand a slightly more powerful steam powered tank

Boneshaker Drill
Requires:.../.../coal or oil or uranium
Stats: Tracked/ Strength 50, movement 2/.../.../ignores terrain movement costs, ignores city defenses, doesn't receive defensive bonuses/ +3 cost per turn
Civilopedia:
Notes: As the name suggests it's a drill tank. It chugs around underground explaining why it ignores terrain movement costs and ignores city defenses. When it's sitting around above ground refilling the air tanks it's just as vulnerable as any other tank so no defensive bonus for you. I thought about it being invisible but then remembered that sudden increasing tremors and plenty of overturned dirt is a kind of obvious telltale that something's going on.

Nautilus (ntnl unit, limit 15) - CREDIT: Hydromancerx
Requires: .../.../Coal
Stats: Submarine/30 strength, 6 movement, 50% withdrawal chance/ 100% versus wooden ships, 50% versus steamships/.../Invisible to most units, can see submarines, can move through impassible terrain, can explore rival territory, ignores terrain movement costs, targets and flank attacks transport ships first/
Civilopedia
Notes: "I personally think it should be weaker than a normal sub but stronger than say an iron clad.... It should be able to do anything a sub can do."

Captain Nemo (World Unit Limit 1) CREDIT: steampunk1880
Requires:.../.../coal
Stats: Submarine/Carries 2, Strength 35, movement 6, 50% withdrawal chance/100% versus wooden ships, 50% versus steamships/.../Invisible to most units, can see submarines, can move through impassible terrain, can explore rival territory, ignores terrain movement costs, Targets first and flank attacks transport ships
Civilopedia:
Notes: It's Captain Nemo in the original nautilus. Fears nothing except giant squids. Do you think we could make giant squids have 300% strength attacking Captain Nemo? Yes it's the submarine with some tweaks. But it should be available before the submarine.

Ornithopter - CREDIT: Vokarya
Cost 130
Requires: Ornithopters/.../Coal, Steel
Stats: Early Fighter/Strength 15, Range 3/.../.../Can bomb tiles and reduce city defenses (2% per turn), Can intercept aircraft (25% chance)
Civilopedia:
Notes: This is supposed to be 75% as effective as an Early Fighter. You could scale it down even more if you want.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well we should first start with what unit graphics are already made (or will be) ...

- Clockwork Golem
- War Wheel
- Steamtank
- Aerogyro
- War Train
- Cloud Destroyer
- Nautilus

 

[steampunk1880]

I propose

Techs:

Computing Engines
Requires:
Leads to: Algorithmic Efficiency and Improved Steam Engine and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Municipal Computing Engine
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: this is my candidate for some kind of initial steampunk tech which leads to all the other stuff.

Improved Steam Engine
Requires: Computing Engine and Algorithmic Efficiency and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: computer aided boiler and piston design lead to engines that are overall more powerful and compact than before. I'm thinking there can be a whole family of these types of techs, improved, advanced, superior, mad. You might be able to use this for the first set of steampunk factory type buildings.

Locomotives
Requires: Computing Engines and...
Leads to: Traction Engines and...
Civics:
Wonders: Grand Central Station (already exists), mining inc (already exists)
Buildings: Railroad Station (already exists), mining inc survey (already exists)
Units: War Train
Special Effects:OBSOLETES: Alhambra, River Authority, Smuggler's Shack, Canoe Builder's Hut; Allows construction of Locomotive Track. A railroad improvement which allows allows 15 movement per point but takes twice as long and is twice as expensive to build as Railroad Track
Civilopedia:
Notes: Steampunk equivalent of industrial tech: railroads. leads to techs for steam powered vehicles

Traction Engines
Requires: Locomotives and...
Leads to: Armored Traction Engines and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Traction Engine Workshop, parking meters (already exists), Tire factory (already exists)
Units: War Wheel
Special Effects: road movement +1
Civilpedia:
Notes: early steam powered road vehicles for civilian use. COMPARE TO: Motorized Transporation

Armored Traction Engines
Requires: Traction engines and Improved Steam Engine and...
Leads to: ...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:Early Steam Tank
Special Effects:
Civilopedia
Notes: more powerful steam powered vehicles with armor and heavy guns. COMPARE TO: Armored Vehicles

Algorithmic Efficiency
Requres: Computing Engines and...
Leads to: Algorithmic Justice and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special Effects: +5 science from mathematics academies
Civilopedia:
Notes: Charles Babbage himself speculated that the widespread adoption of the analytical engine would encourage an interest in society for finding the most efficient way to do things using the new computers. this tech is first in a branching list of changes to society

Algorithmic Justice
Requires: Algorithmic Efficiency and...
Leads to: Algorithmic Morality and...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings: Panopticon Prison
Units:
Special Effects:
Civilopedia:
Notes: Algorithmic efficiency's first application in society trying to quantify and provide mathematical formulas for justice, law and order.

Algorithmic Morality
Requires: Algorithmic Justice and...
Leads to: ...
Civics:
Wonders:
Buildings:
Units:
Special effects:
Civilopedia:
Noes: Provides mathematical "proof" that ends justify the means and possibly leads to late steampunk era mad science techs as the scientific kooks are let loose on the population.

--------

Civics:

Mad Scientists
Category: Power
Tech Required:
Effects: 10 unhappy, 10 unhealth in 6 largest cities, -20% maintenance from distance to palace, all improvements grow at 50% speed, 30% science 30% hammers in all cities, increases local rebelliousness, increases national rebelliousness, allows construction of Mad Scientist's Castle
Civilopedia:
Notes: Mad Scientists take over as local government administrators and rule their lands like feudal fiefdoms reducing maintenance from distance. The population is largely reduced to being either minions or test subjects causing significant unhappiness, significant unhealthiness and an increased inclination to break out the torches and pitchforks (rebelliousness) with the tradeoff being signficant leaps in science and engineering.

 

[steampunk1880]

Continuing:

Buildings:

Municipal Computing Engine
Requires: Computing Engines/.../copper
Effects: 3 unhealth, +20% science, (+10% science with power), can turn 1 citizen into scientist.
Civilopedia
Notes: the city commissions the construction of a colossal timeshare computing engine for use by the local residents increasing science output. science increases more when it becomes electromechanical.

Traction Engine Workshop
Requires: Traction Engines/.../Good (Tires), ...
Effects: 2 unhealth, 6 hammers, 3 gold, (+10% hammers with power), can turn 1 citizen into engineer, Required to build War Wheel, Steam Tank, ...,
Civilopedia:
Notes: COMPARE TO: Automobile Factory

Panopticon Prison
Requires: Algorithmic Justice/.../...
Effects: 2 unhappy (plus 4 unhappy with Civic Proletariat), 4 espionage, 50% espionage, +10% maintenance, -30% war weariness, helps thwart rival spies, can turn 1 citizen into spy
Civilopedia
Notes:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
The panopticon was proposed in the late 18th century as a more efficient way of keeping an eye on prisoners and malcontents. A central "inspection house" which prisoners could not see inside held guards to keep an eye on the prison cells which lined the perimeter and were all visible at all times from the inspection house. I think this fits the theme of obsessively maximizing the efficiency of justice. But, quite possibly, the oridinary folk would think it creepy and a bit inhumane to be always watched and never know who's watching you.

Mad Scientist's Castle
Requires: .../.../.../Civic: Mad Scientists
Effects: 3 unhappy, 3 unhealthy, 15% science, -15% maintenance, increased local rebeliousness
Civilopedia
Notes: the local domicile for the resident mad scientist who controls the surrounding countryside with an iron fist and an army of weird science. Technological progress increases from his experiments and maintenance decreases because he and his capable minions handle some of the local government work. Random experiments on the population tends to upset people though.

Coal Fired Dynamo
Requires: .../.../Coal (in vicinity)
Effects: 6 unhealth, 9 hammers, Provides power, employs 1 citizen
Civilopedia:
Notes: Will probably need to be linked to steampunk era electricty tech equivalent and whatever we decide to call steampunk power lines. COMPARE TO: coal plant.

Wood Fired Dynamo
Requires: .../.../Prime Timber (in vicinity)
Effects: 4 unhealth, 6 hammers, provides power, employs 1 citizen
Civilopedia:
Notes: I don't recall my steampunk novels having much in the way of renewable energy...Windmills maybe... so i think we need a lot more buildings that involve burning things to produce energy

Peat Fired Dynamo
Requires: .../.../Peat (in vicinity)
Effects: 2 unhealth, 3 hammers, provides power, employs 1 citizen

-----------

Units

War Train
Requires: Locomotives/coal
Stats: Wheeled/ 42 strength, 3 movement/Cannot Capture Cities/TERRAIN NATIVE: LOCOMOTIVE TRACK/National Unit (limit 3)
Civilopedia:
Notes: Terrain Native is used in the mechanos steampunk civ in a few Fall From Heaven modmods. What it means is that the unit can only move onto tiles that are its native terrain. In this case it means it is a powerful fast responder within your own borders (assuming you've spammed Locomotive Tracks everywhere) but almost certainly cannot travel far outside them unless you made a point to build locomotive tracks in your neighbors territories. As the war progresses and stuff like roads get pillaged and bombed, it becomes less and less useful.

War Wheel
Requires:Traction Engines/Traction Engine Workshop/coal, good (tires)
Stats: Recon/ 36 strength, 2 movement, 10% withdrawal chance/cannot attack, ignores terrain movement costs/Starts with Sentry 1, Guerilla 1, Woodsman 1.
Civilopedia
Notes: yep. a steam powered motorcycle.

Early Steam Tank
Requires: Armored Traction Engines/Traction Engine Workshop/Coal, Iron or Steel
Stats: Wheeled/ 38 strength, 1 movement/Doesn't receive defensive bonuses/Starts with blitz/ +1 gold unit cost
Civilopedia:
Notes: aaand a slightly more powerful steam powered tank

Done.

Lastly I suggest as a design philosophy for Steampunk that the age should have, in a basic way, more pollution and more unhappiness causing buildings and civics in exchange for a high hammer and science rate. my unit philosophy is to have steam powered equivalent industrial units early on giving way to somewhat wacky jules verne and mad scientist units late in the age.

edit: forgot to add mad scientist's castle

 

[steampunk1880]

@ Hydro, do you think that nautilus could be quite a bit more powerful to compete with up to early destroyer at least? As it is even the iron frigate that everyone gets at steam power would be able to murder it. What do you think about replacing oil with coal? Finally, with those tech requirements a steampunk civ would be able to build it right away.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ Hydro, do you think that nautilus could be quite a bit more powerful to compete with up to early destroyer at least? As it is even the iron frigate that everyone gets at steam power would be able to murder it. What do you think about replacing oil with coal? Finally, with those tech requirements a steampunk civ would be able to build it right away.

Yes I think it should be. Note that the screenshot above was from the "Fictionalization" mod. Any stats it has can be changed. Just showing the model. I personally think it should be weaker than a normal sub but stronger than say an iron clad.

 

[steampunk1880]

ironclad-24 normal sub-35 let's try nautilus at 30

Can you think of any special abilities it should have? withdrawal? first strikes? bonus vs wood or steamships? The normal sub targets transports first and flanks them, should it have that too?

should it be a unique world unit, a limit (#) unit, or a normal unit?

 

[Hydromancerx]

1. That sounds resonable.

2.Yeah those all sound fine. It should be able to do anything a sub can do.

3. All alt history units should be national units. How many is up to the unit. I would say at max make them like elite units which max out at 15 units.

 

[steampunk1880]

no normal baseline units at all? steampunk civs would be stuck with a load of riflemen once they maxed out on all the other ones since that's the best they're going to get until they drop out into modern times.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yes I think they should have a limit since there are such powerful and special units. Think of them like elite units. Unlike say hero units they can be built again if they die.

Also we may want to think about alternate history hero units too.

 

[steampunk1880]

So you'll want 15 unit limits on all the stuff i've suggested. What about the war train. I suggested that at a maximum of three precicely because it was so powerful. Most of the units i've put out are approximately as powerful as their industrial age equivalents but different in slight ways, not elite at all.

And for heroes, "Captain Nemo" can pilot a slightly faster and more powerful Nautilus class submarine. hold on i'll throw together some stats for you to look over. Wanna think up a civilopedia entry for Nemo? I can't remember what his beef was off the top of my head. something about the British empire being imperialistic.

Unit

Captain Nemo
Requires:.../.../coal
Stats: Submarine/Carries 2, Strength 35, movement 6, 50% withdrawal chance/100% versus wooden ships, 50% versus steamships/.../Invisible to most units, can see submarines, can move through impassible terrain, can explore rival territory, ignores terrain movement costs, Targets first and flank attacks transport ships
Civilopedia:
Notes: It's Captain Nemo in the original nautilus. Fears nothing except giant squids. Do you think we could make giant squids have 300% strength attacking Captain Nemo? Yes it's the submarine with some tweaks. But it should be available before the submarine.

how's that?

 

[Hydromancerx]

So you'll want 15 unit limits on all the stuff i've suggested. What about the war train. I suggested that at a maximum of three precicely because it was so powerful. Most of the units i've put out are approximately as powerful as their industrial age equivalents but different in slight ways, not elite at all.

Well 15 or under. Like the train could easily be limited to just 3. But aren't they unlike earlier than their industrial age equivalents? And i suppose it can all depend upon the unit if it should be a more generalized unit and have not limit. However I would think they should all have something special form normal units so you want to build them over normal units.

And for heroes, "Captain Nemo" can pilot a slightly faster and more powerful Nautilus class submarine. hold on i'll throw together some stats for you to look over. Wanna think up a civilopedia entry for Nemo? I can't remember what his beef was off the top of my head. something about the British empire being imperialistic.

Nemo is a good choice.

 

[steampunk1880]

Time, I think, to put the uncontested stuff from yesterday up in the OP. we have 8 techs, 1 civic, 7 buildings and 3 units.

Edit: I could also change the units to be national with max 15 (save for the War Train which stays at 3) but could it be max 20 or more instead? What do you guys think would be a balanced number keeping in mind that the way to win wars in this game are Stacks of Doom?

 

[steampunk1880]

Moving the Nautilus and it's heroic counterpart up to the list. Would be an easy cut and paste if people followed the formula i suggested for, yanno, suggesting things..


aside from the basic daily update
Do you mind if i change the name of submarine to Nautilus Class Submersible to distinguish itself from THE Nautilus that Captain Nemo pilots?

and since "early steam tank" is early i think i should nerf the basic strength to make room for an advanced steam tank or something showing up about the same time an industrial timeline civ would get their early tank. the Advanced steam tank would take the current Early Steam Tank's stats. What do you guise think?

 

[Hydromancerx]

aside from the basic daily update
Do you mind if i change the name of submarine to Nautilus Class Submersible to distinguish itself from THE Nautilus that Captain Nemo pilots?

I don't care what its called. As long as there is a stempunk sub.

and since "early steam tank" is early i think i should nerf the basic strength to make room for an advanced steam tank or something showing up about the same time an industrial timeline civ would get their early tank. the Advanced steam tank would take the current Early Steam Tank's stats. What do you guise think?

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean an advance steam tank that is at the same level as an early tank?

 

[steampunk1880]

if two civs had the exact same tech rate and one was running on a hypothetical separate steampunk tech line and one was running the regular industrial timeline, the steampunk tech line would get the tech to build the early steam tank at about the same time as the industrial tech civ would be building machine guns. They would both be about the same strength though the early steam tank, in my mind would be slightly more powerful than cavalry with a bonus against machine guns and be counterd by grenadiers (which i think should get a defense bonus against any clockwork and steam tanks we decide to add too). later in this hypothetical separate tech tree the steampunk civ would gain the ability to build advanced steam tanks at about the same time as the industrial civ could conceivably gain the ability to construct early tanks. Advanced steam tanks would be between early tank and tank in strength with two movement. Advanced steam tanks would upgrade to armor when steampunk meets industrial going into the modern age. Keep in mind I'm not proposing this yet, maybe there needs to be a third steam tank. I still have to think about it and of course the presence of a hypothetical separate tech tree is hypothetical.

 

[Hydromancerx]

See that's where I am not sure if that would be right. I think in that situation the one that was on the normal path would not get there before you could get steampunk. For the other eras it might be easier to see such as a cogpunk tank could come about long before an early tank.

But lets say your right and one civ gets steampunk and the other gets the regular industrial timeline. What would keep the steampunk timeline from researching core techs too? And why even take steampunk if you are going to arrive at the regular industrial era in the same amount of turns?

There should be some incentive that if you take the steampunk you can get more advanced units earlier than if you took the regular path. However in doing so you are neglecting to research core techs.

EDIT: Ok I think I have a solution, I will post my idea in the main thread.

 

[steampunk1880]

The incentive, I believe, for steampunk should be an overall large increase in production and science from equivalent but not equal buildings tempered by an equally large increase in unhappiness and unhealthiness from the same buildings so industrial would be the path to take if you think going steampunk will cripple your ability to grow your cities too much in the long run, while if you're flush with health bonuses and happiness or don't mind entering the modern age a permanantly dirtier and unhappier civ than your neighbors and are attracted by the thought of having a hammer and beaker advantage that lingers, then steampunk is the way to go.

Getting too powerful units much earlier than the other civs puts you in danger of steamrolling or getting steamrolled by other civs which, I think, ruins the fun factor. Boredom if you're the one pwning cavalry in your steamtank and frustration if you see an army of atomic supertanks (no i don't think that's a very creative idea for a retro future unit) on your border ready to wipe the floor with your modern infantry)

Similar units at similar times but with different bonuses require different strategies which is great if people are tired of the rock paper scissors of the main tech line. Alternate timelines allow us to add lizard and Spock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock so even if you aren't on the alternate timeline, you still have the additional fun of having to plan for your enemies that are. steampunk neighbors building too many keeled airships? stock up on machine gunners in all your cities. Now they're bulding steam tanks to murder your machine gunners? i guess it's time to bring in the grenadiers.