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Still annoyed by the warrior hordes...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Fafnir13, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    I've been taking something of a break from the game for a while. I just reminded myself why. Early game warfare can be nigh unmanageable, even after cranking the difficulty down. So...many...warriors....
    Given Kael's justified preoccupations, I was wondering if anyone's devised something of a quick-fix to tone down the number of units being built. I find myself missing this game, but really don't like the current form.
     
  2. Inkling

    Inkling Warlord

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    i'm in the same boat. i want to play, but the current version isn't fun, and the prospect of going back versions, the only solution i know of, doesn't appeal to me either. so i just frequent the boards periodicly in the hopes it will get fixed.

    trying to mod it myself, well without having priior knowledge of all the nuts and bolts, its likely a considerable investment in time. which is why i am hoping one of the modmoders who presumably already know most of the nuts and bolts, can take over if kael really isn't comming back.
     
  3. ADHansa

    ADHansa Warlord

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    Isn't the current version teaching the AI a counter to the nobrainer of producing nothing but warriors and sending them straight to the nearest enemy capital, combined with the knowledge of during a war producing what he needs best- warriors. I personally think the AI should now how to do this, especially when it is as simple as producing enough warriors. The counter is for you to outtech the AI, get axemen and catapults before the AI reaches archers and then start the war, or any other strategy that works.

    On the either hand, the AI is worse at more advansed wars, so it should more be a matter of keeping up until be able to start such a one. I think it is fair that to at least let the AI be good at such things that he gets.

    And by the way, the AI warrior production is chosen by the complicated pythoncode in gameutils.py, sometimes referring to defense requirements that i haven't bin able to find.
     
  4. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Im not sure ... I think it should look at relative global power ... or something. Right now the AI simply keeps building more and more units in an overblown arms race, tanking their economy.

    Winning in Diety is still hard, but having the best tech/most advanced troops in Diety is no longer so difficult. Well, I'd actually have to test that again, but certainly on most difficulties. Still not sure if the AI even has ANY upkeep on diety xD
     
  5. slowcar

    slowcar King

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    More or less a "AI feedback" thread again. anyhow, finetuning seems to be neccessary to get the impact on the economy down.

    other than this the AI should attack merciless if it has a superior force.
    if you want to play against barbarians only: no problem, there are maps/settings for it.
    other than this i think it is a good improvement that at least early rushes are countered much better. if they would only rush themselves...
     
  6. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Yeah, I haven't played a full FFH game in months. Each time I try to start one, I get bored because it's too easy to win. On Deity. The number of units isn't the problem, it's how the AI uses them; very poorly.
     
  7. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    M'kay, so reverting to G is the only fix available then? I was thinking of giving that a go.
     
  8. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    The worst part of the new patch is that it means that early rushes, my favourite strategies, are simply no longer viable, even if you go right down to noble to remove some of the AI's many bonuses it's simply impossible to fight them in the early game.
     
  9. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    I've only succeeded at one rush (post-H), and that was total luck. As Rhoanna I built 8 warriors as fast as I could and sent 7 after the Malakim who were 6 moves away. When I got there, the Malakim capitol was larger than mine (so in theory more focus on :food: and less on :hammers: than me), but they still had 6 Warriors (3 with Combat I) and a Lightbringer defending. I used Warcry and yet was only victorious thanks to 4 victories at about 16% odds (good thing the city wasn't on a hill) and then then fact that my survivors each got 3 levels but his only got 1. Tasunke would have had (slightly) better odds, but overall victory still would have been unlikely. Barring an unusual situation (AI takes the Great Bard from the Clairone event early and production stalls as a result, or you are the Clan and use a ton of gold from huts to drown an AI in goblins bought from a fort), it just isn't practical to rush any more.
     
  10. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Harder early rushing is good. The AI's being completely inept with their SOD's is bad.
     
  11. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    I certainly wouldn't want the AI to be a pushover, such that rushes always worked. It's just sad to play the Doviello as timid.
     
  12. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    AI's aren't necessarily destroyed easily ... but they are like a giant, docile turtle. You can't crack its shell, but its not going to bite at you any time soon.
     
  13. seizer

    seizer Warlord

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    Of course, in the late game, cracking that shell isn't all that hard, just annoying.
     
  14. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    still, the point is that it hardly ever bites you. They all make stacks that aimlessly wander around, occasionally defend, and almost never attack.
     
  15. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    In the couple deity games I played with the new AI the AIs attacked me plenty. Actually attacked, not just faffed around with their big stacks. There's tricks I was able to do to make them march in the wrong direction (most of them involving raiding behind them with small groups of 3 move troops) but they did try and they didn't just sit around.
     
  16. ADHansa

    ADHansa Warlord

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    This is so spot on :thumbsup:
     
  17. Jenaelha

    Jenaelha fields of Elanor

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    The new FfH AI pillaging forced me to become a more aggressive player than the explore and defend player I was. Which I enjoyed. However, the latest patch 41j also crashes so often that I stopped playing it. Oddly enough, I'm very happy playing Sephi's Wild Mana ModMod. FfH's new AI originated with Sephi's ModMod but Sephi's AI, while not complete yet, has no similarity to FfH's AI.

    Going back to 41G will work for FfH, but there are several excellent ModMods out there that *are* being maintained and thankfully don't have these major issues.

    The thing about 41G is no one is maintaing 41G. These other ModMod's are improving from player feedback right now. They even benefit each other by sharing ideas and code. Including FfH, which is mostly looking to improve AI, has shown that they are relying heavily on other designers input in this area.

    My guess is that play testing these other ModMods now is the best way to help FfH.
     
  18. Avahz Darkwood

    Avahz Darkwood Emperor

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    I would make a suggestion here, and considering that the development of base FFH is coming to a halt; it would be best to look at the major mod mods out there. At the moment they seem to be more stable and the development cycle hasn't screeched to a slow crawl. Kael has done a wonderful job and is passing the torch to a new group of game masters. Look at Rife, Fall Further, Orbis, etc for a new directions to the game. But if you want something that is very close to the original FFH, the Wild Mana Mod mod is what you will want. Wild mana has set up so that you can play as close to the original as you want or set up options to expand on your experience. From my experience the Wild Mana version has fixed/balanced many of the issues here.
     
  19. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Or mod stuff yourself.
     
  20. Avahz Darkwood

    Avahz Darkwood Emperor

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    True, but to contend with the issues of warrior spam, etc. it would require some .dll modding skills. Many others would prefer not to or dont have the skill set to work out these kind of issues.
     

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