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[GS] Stone and Copper - Do you mostly harvest?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by GKShaman, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

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    Out of all the bonus resources I notice that stone and copper are ones I want to get rid off UNLESS its on grasslands and I need the hammer yield OR it adds adjacency for Industrial Zone.

    Even in the second case since Aqueduct and Dam give more adjacency and often districts or strategics like coal and Iron (which you can't remove) Stone and Copper falls down in the priority scale.

    I wish they brought back stoneworks which used to give happiness and a gold! Instead can give an amenity and boost the stone. https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Stone_Works_(Civ5)

    As it is at most stone will be 4 hammers. Used to give +2 gold but gathering took that way. Since it messes with district placement or farm diamonds I often take it away. Honestly even without it a unique cultural improvement would just be better or a seaside resort or Moai.

    The mauseloum wonder in civ5 used to make stone amazing +2 gold! Now its not that anymore at all.

    Maybe Im holding on to a past mechanic. But I wish they made stone and copper better again - it feels weird they made this bonus luxury something to be stripped from the map. 2 food and 3 hammers I feel just don't cut it for good yields when that's just a basic mine. It should beat a basic mine.

    Maybe stone can give tourism later? Stonehenge being the real life example?
     
  2. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Playing on Prince difficulty, I almost NEVER harvest them. Perhaps if I need a spot for a district AND I have (or can easily get) a builder available. Just like woods/rainforest, they might not get harvested, just removed if the hex is required.
     
  3. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

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    Usually copper is 100+ gold so its super worth harvesting. Harvesting stone is almost a whole worker so worth it to wait and replace ur worker and then build the district.
     
  4. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Warlord

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    I harvest both 99% of the time. Preferably with Magnus calling the shots within the city. The 2 gold per turn takes too long to equal the harvest and the quarry yields are fairly insignificant compared to the chop.
     
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  5. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

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    This is exactly why I want some building or effect to make it worth it to stay. Like workshops give +1 prod to stone, copper, silver, and amber. Something like that. or have it give an amenity if it stays.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Crabs anyone?
    I do, especially late game.
    Shame you cannot harvest turtle, they are scrummy. Any good Victorian should be able to harvest a species or 2.
     
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  7. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    No thanks!

    If "Victorians" can harvest some species for soup and a main course, China should be able to get a little bit more, e.g. oracle bones for faith from harvesting cattle and turtles.
    Pigs could give knuckle bones to provide amenities in the form of children's toys.
    Antlers from deer could boost population growth for civs that have faith in their aphrodisiac properties.
    France should be able to get food from horses. (Ok, England too, but only after they research "Pies".)

    In short, I don't think we should open that can of worms.
     
  8. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Warlord

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    It would make building workshops feel less terrible. But in all honesty, I only build 1-2 IZs in my game at most and the bonus resources are getting eaten up during the Magnus tour
     
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  9. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz King

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    and risk falling victim to the wrath of the Crab God? He will send Hurricanes to devastate your lands if you don't protect his people...
     
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  10. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf King

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    I never harvest anything unless i want to connect multiple districts. Or a situational wonder/victory condition in the endgame for (space victory). I’m also very reluctant to shop woods unless they are on a hill. Hill woods are almost always chopped. want to keep the production long term.

    i can beat immortal with this but i dont often feel the need to min/max to get an extra edge over the AI on the short term at cost of long term.
     
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  11. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Sorry I had to add that on the flip side India shouldn't harvest cattle or build a pasture on them in the first place.

    In response to the thread I usually don't harvest anything unless I know for certain I want to build something on that tile usually it happens to be a district or a unique improvement that would get a good adjacency bonus.
    Then again I sometimes do wait until late game because apparently stone, copper, and lumber can help with spaceship parts.
     
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  12. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Of course. I don't think there exist any reasons not to harvest them. If you say crabs then maybe they provide precious adj for Harbors, however stones and copper? There's no reason not to harvest.

    I guess the real problem lies on harvesting food resources like cows or rice or banabas.
     
  13. madskillz32

    madskillz32 Chieftain

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    When you say harvest you mean bulldoze and receive the production bonus?

    Sorry, new to civ6
     
  14. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    I generally only harvest or chop if I want to put a district somewhere or notice I'm in a wonder race.
     
  15. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz King

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    Yes. You will also see people call it "chop" when they are talking about woods and rainforest.
     
  16. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Never harvest. I like the visual variety the resources add to the map.

    It means removing the resource and getting some instant yields, yes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2019
  17. L4Psha

    L4Psha Warlord

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    I almost never harvest. I don't understand why should i choose small bonus before small steady income. It won't be enough to build anything and if you have problems with production it will still take time to build the rest of what you start. Maybe if you building a wonder and afraid of competitors, but still it won't be enough and still you may lose. Or if a resource on a good spot for district and even in this case i'll think twice before harvesting it. And i never harvest food, this i really don't understand. If you low on food, getting a new pop won't solve the problem.
     
  18. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    I'll try give you a few ways to look at this:

    1 production on turn 10 is worth a lot more than 1 production on turn 100. So the value of your small steady income steadily diminishes.
    So if you have to choose between 1 production per turn, or getting say 50 production at once, you do not need just 50 turns time for those choises to be equal. In fact, since inflation over 50 turns is really big, the value of that small trickle will probably never add up to 50. (its like 1 + 0.95+0.905+0.86+0.817+....)

    Those who advocate aggressive harvesting do so from the viewpoint that efficiency = winning earlier. They will win their games usually between turn 150 and 200. Say you are going to win a domination victory at turn 180. Any troops you build after turn 160 will never reach the front lines, and thus your production is worth nothing after turn 160. At turn 120, your small trickle can only provide you 40 more production of value. (and that is not even counting the inflation explained above) If at turn 120 you can gain more than 40 by harvesting, that is obviously a good idea. Add the inflation story to that, and you will want to harvest even earlier.

    If you think you can't win before turn 200 and thus it's probably not a good idea for you to harvest, you sort of make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is however understandable that while those who only live to win as fast as possible see no counter to this argumentation and rightfully harvest everything, others feel it's a choise of playstyle. Civ is after all also a builder game, and we like it partly because we want to build a beautifull and powerful empire, not to deplete everything as fast as we can and win with a shriveled sort of empire that seems to be winning on it's last breath. (it is after all not only harvesting this logic goes for, it is also to be considered when doing other longer term investments. You don't want to be building mines, factories, powerplants etc if your game is not going to last long enough to make them worthy, so you don't build any of that crap, you just harvest and cram out units asap)

    It's a good thing they make the value of the harvesting grow over time. In the very early game, there is virtually no value to gain, because 1 worker action costs about 20 production and your harvest doesn't really give you much more than 20 production. As time goes on, the harvest becomes more valuable. By the time you get to feudalism, your worker action costs less, and the harvest provides a lot more, so now it has become very valuable. When exactly you should harvest is a complicated matter, but @ feudalism is probably a good baseline since that is both where your harvests just jumped up in value and it also is, if you play aggressively and win fast, between 50 and 100 turns before the end of the game. Stuff that is very valuable for harvesting you may want to harvest earlier. Stuff that is in your way for districts you probably want to harvest super early. (district placement should absolutely be prioritized over preserving harvestable resources) If you want a space victory, you may well want to keep stuff around one or 2 cities till the end so you can harvest it to build space parts. And many more considerations can go into what you will harvest when. But at some point you should harvest everything, winning the game with unharvested resources around is like dying with a big fat bank account.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  19. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Well, if you're really beelining on tech (especially when you beeline Advanced Flight for bomber rush) you'll find 3 workshops worth the eureka for industrialization.
     
  20. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    i never been a big fan of mass harvesting/chopping. I certainly get why it is strong, especially when R&F came out but part of me feels it is wrong to just remove most/all resources.

    i do think the idea of buildings providing yield increases to bonus resources, and maybe even luxuries would be good for the game. perhaps that is 3rd expansion worthy tied in with corporations? You could make some of the weaker districts/buildings stronger by doing this.
     
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