Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ztrapon, Aug 3, 2017.
Personally I'm a stoner any day. But I suppose marble wonders are the fancier ones.
I like having marble earlier, but I need stone to get my beloved Kremlin and to make Oxford reasonable.
By then you have many opportunities to just take it from others.
Quite true and my normal MO.
Well, marble is great for fail gold, as most of the early wonders are good for just that with the exception of TGL. Marble is generally not a factor for Oracle, even if the resource itself is present, on high levels anyway as is pretty cheap without it.
Stone, however, gives you one of the most powerful early wonders in the game outside GLH in the Mids, and Hanging Gardens is pretty nice too. If I have stone, I want those two wonders. Ofc, some good fold gold ops too, and Great Wall is great for early fail gold if you have stone hooked up early.
So, I lean toward stone myself, at least early, although it is always good to get your hands on some marble at some point.
I actually forgot about the 'mids but I almost never get them so it's understandable. Another point to add here is that the from marble isn't to be despised.
There is no happiness from marble
Stone especially if ind since legit shot at mids. Main thing is theh arrive together at masonry which is normally a detour at a point where production (chops) is more common than research. This is akso why hooking up marble to build the oracle isn't good.
Marble is nice too for gl and taj but It is not a big deal. Imo the best thing about marble are national wonders and fail gold shenanigans
Finally, Moai statues and stone is nice too.
You might be thinking about V. Marble doesn't give happiness in IV. It's used to double production speed of certain wonders: Oracle, TOA, Parthenon, Great Library, Taj, Heroic Epic, National Epic, Sistine Chapel, MoM... I think there are others. Stone does the same thing, but with different wonders. There are also a couple wonders that can't be sped up by resources, and a couple that have random resources like gold and ivory to speed them up.
And both those wonders give GE points. With a GE, you can pop another wonder that you don't have the multiplier for (or doesn't have a multiplier.) So stone is really good if you're a wonder-whore. Marble gives more failgold opportunities.
I have no idea why I thought there was
Nope, haven't played V in almost four years now
Marble. I almost always build Great Library, Taj and National Epic, but there are no always-build Stone wonders for me. And the last time I tried to build Stonehenge w/Stone, I had forgotten that I needed to detour to Masonry to actually get the bonus.
Give me your extra resources!
Now I wish you could convert military units.
In Civ II you could use a spy (or diplomat) to bribe a unit to your side.
Stone means Mids pretty much which is always worth a shot, but Marble is the nicer resource to have early as its earlier wonders are more useful (besides Mids), you can build fail-gold into many of them with reasonable assurance of getting it back fairly fast (Temple of Artemis is a great example), late Oracle (i.e. trading for not self-teching Priesthood) becomes more of an option, etc.
Also, marble reduces some very nice mid-game wonders like Great Library, MoM, Sistine, Taj Mahal, while stone is only for kind of useless wonders in the mid-game (Chichen, Angkor, Sankore, Spiral Minaret) and Notre Dame is too out of the way so it's mostly just fail-gold help which isn't say that isn't nice, you just have more potential use out of marble. I'm conflicted on Hanging Gardens as it's useful to stack in the Mids city for eventual GE (which can lead to also actually snagging Notre Dame or just save him for Mining Inc) but the wonder bonus itself is questionably useful at the point you get it (the health is nice later on near max pop sizes, but not immediately). This has to be weighed against self-teching Math in order to actually have a good shot at it since AIs are stingy with that tech or pursuing a different path. Stone is also nice to have if you plan on going for a fast Oxford, something I don't do regularly, but for something like Kremlin (the other great wonder it works on) you can secure it by force at that much later point in the game.
Further for marble's case, don't forget the National Epic; I've been on a fast Philo bulb >>> Caste + Pacifism kick lately after recently learning how awesome it is for any civ, and getting that bad boy in place in a high food spot with little production is much easier with it.
Marble takes the cake for me. If I have Philo leader or the map lends itself to a specialist heavy economy, marble helps with GL and Parth. If going culture victory, it's hugely helpful for Sis Chap. If the map lends itself to a bureau cottage spam capital, fail gold from marble wonders is awesome. Not to mention the MoM / Taj combo is pretty powerful in any game and both are boosted by marble.
Stone is good for Mids but I only really care to build it if going for that rare Super Settled Specialist game. Other times, I can generally capture it fairly early. It's a powerful wonder, don't get me wrong, but I find it to be less-than-necessary to self-build in most games. Great Wall is good for trolling the AI but isn't a game changer and I can often chop it without Stone or capture it. Oxford is the other powerful thing boosted by Stone but that alone doesn't push Stone passed the "nice to have" category for me. Moai Statues are nice to have but I rarely build them outside a water heavy map or rare high water capital.
I like stone because I play huge maps and can have 20+ cities before I build Hanging Gardens.
I usually gift marble away to a wonder spamming civ so that they can build those marble wonders for me while I focus on military techs.
I also play k-mod, which makes the AI rush aesthetics very frequently. I usually can't afford to detour to literature before currency, so I don't get The Great Library very often.
Recently, I've been playing with raging barbs so I like some stone to buiId The Great Wall and then watch other Civs perish under their onslaught. Besides, it has the best Wonder movie
Also, I made the same mistake as Lexicus about marble's mythical happiness modifier on the forum some time back. Was it in vanilla Civ IV but removed with the expansions, or even in Civ III? Seems odd that we both thought that it existed. Hmmm...
Separate names with a comma.