Stonehenge - Lets decide this
- Thread starter galdarian
- Start date
If you mean what I'm guessing you mean by that, of course we agree. ie. if nobody builds Stonehenge and it's like turn 50 and we could just chop it, of course it would be valuable. The question is whether to rush to build it right away (it involves chopping anyway too...) but if it just sits around and no one has built it then it'd be easy and good to get it later.
By the way, I haven't checked in game the past couple turns but have no religions really been founded? That means awfully slow Oracle/surprised some team isn't on an Oracle beeline.
By the way, I haven't checked in game the past couple turns but have no religions really been founded? That means awfully slow Oracle/surprised some team isn't on an Oracle beeline.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I will still argue heavily for Stonehenge. That added culture boost for each new coastal city and the added happy face will be very important in leveraging our charismatic trait. Also, a bigger main city also produces more settlers rapidly without having major maintenance overheads.
I still firmly thinks we should do the Stonehenge as originally planned. Plus, we get our exact location on the map, making it easier to extrapolate the neighbors.
I still firmly thinks we should do the Stonehenge as originally planned. Plus, we get our exact location on the map, making it easier to extrapolate the neighbors.
Well, we essentiall HAVE to switch tech this turn to Mysticism if we were to do so, which means we have to have a decision before ending this turn/playing any further. I'm not convinced on the usefulness in the end and also apprehensive about at least a couple other teams who may be racing to SH (Mayans and Persia got early techs, not BW or religion it seems, and both could want it). Sorry to say my vote's probably not changing though if we do switch I'll accept the decision.
cav scout
The Continuum
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Cav Scout here checking in! I'm in the process of reading all the threads and getting caught up.
I just tied up the poll with my yes vote, although I think the issue has already been decided.
A bit on my thought process though- My inclination is to go for Stonehenge early since it is a natural fit for our civ and the other teams will assume we are going for it and pass on it. So we might as well scoop it up now instead of facing competition later when everyone realizes no one went for it early.
I suspect the other teams (Merlot for sure at least) are much more interested in an Oracle sling to MC-> Colossus. I think we should decide to pass on these 2 wonders now and focus on other stuff.
I just tied up the poll with my yes vote, although I think the issue has already been decided.
A bit on my thought process though- My inclination is to go for Stonehenge early since it is a natural fit for our civ and the other teams will assume we are going for it and pass on it. So we might as well scoop it up now instead of facing competition later when everyone realizes no one went for it early.
I suspect the other teams (Merlot for sure at least) are much more interested in an Oracle sling to MC-> Colossus. I think we should decide to pass on these 2 wonders now and focus on other stuff.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
It is still a tie, and we need a tiebreaker. No-one can change their votes here, as we cannot read who voted what (private, not public poll). I suggest we hold the save till we get a deciding vote here, in all fairness.
RegentMan
Deity
Well if MrBanana keeps his vote changed, it is three YES and five NO (click on the numbers in the poll to see who voted for what). While not an overwhelming majority, I think eight out of the eleven or twelve we have signed up is pretty good; much better than the fifty percent we were getting earlier.
cav scout
The Continuum
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What we don't want to do is hold the turn if we can avoid it. The turn just rolled though so we still have roughly two days.
I agree with RegentMan on the current vote count. If MrBanana keeps his vote changed to No then we should abandon Stonehenge. The only other active person who hasn't voted is Tyboy (who would probably vote Yes based on his earlier comments).
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This also raises an interesting point about the polling mechanism here at civfanatics. Polls are great, but people will often cast a snap vote before reading the underlying discussion. And as the debate unfolds people are always changing their votes.
With such a small group I think its actually more effective to keep a running by-name vote tally for any issues where there seems to be a difference of opinion. The turn player keeps everyone appraised of when the deadline for a decision is and holds the turn as long as possible if debate is still ongoing. Example:
I agree with RegentMan on the current vote count. If MrBanana keeps his vote changed to No then we should abandon Stonehenge. The only other active person who hasn't voted is Tyboy (who would probably vote Yes based on his earlier comments).
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This also raises an interesting point about the polling mechanism here at civfanatics. Polls are great, but people will often cast a snap vote before reading the underlying discussion. And as the debate unfolds people are always changing their votes.
With such a small group I think its actually more effective to keep a running by-name vote tally for any issues where there seems to be a difference of opinion. The turn player keeps everyone appraised of when the deadline for a decision is and holds the turn as long as possible if debate is still ongoing. Example:
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Well, a vote is a vote, and cannot be undone until a repoll. I will now put forward a NEUTRALLY worded poll, unlike the two first ones, and send out PMs to each of our members that they should vote within 48 hours or so. I want this to be done fairly, as it was a good amount of analysis and testing that went into this, please respect that.
cav scout
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I respectfully disagree... or rather I would say it doesn't have to be that way if our team would prefer to use the more informal running vote tally technique or some other method.
I would say respecting that people can and should change their minds as an issue evolves is more important that adhering to a rigid polling regime. I believe in procedure and an ordered world as much as anyone. But I believe the least amount of structure and legalism should be the goal, especially in a small group setting like our forum. I'm still a strong supporter of Stonehenge but I am willing to concede to the majority instead of trying to tie the issue up procedurally.
I've been on vacation, have we crossed the rubicon on this one? If so, which way did we go?
While maya could probably beat us to it, I think it is a poor build for a non-charismatic leader so I kind of doubt they would. There's no accounting for people though.
For what it's worth, with no huts available the worst case scenario where we lose it in a close race is not an incredibly terrible thing, those hammers get converted into that really important early game research where you're developing the resources you need to build prosperous cities (BW, resourse techs, maybe sailing, pottery, writing). It can be so frustrating to get that second city out and not be able to do anything there but warrior spam while it grows to an acceptable size.
While maya could probably beat us to it, I think it is a poor build for a non-charismatic leader so I kind of doubt they would. There's no accounting for people though.
For what it's worth, with no huts available the worst case scenario where we lose it in a close race is not an incredibly terrible thing, those hammers get converted into that really important early game research where you're developing the resources you need to build prosperous cities (BW, resourse techs, maybe sailing, pottery, writing). It can be so frustrating to get that second city out and not be able to do anything there but warrior spam while it grows to an acceptable size.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Well, the poll now is 5 to 4, and there should not be any frivolous tinkering and horsetrading surrounding it. The poll should be respected per Demogame convention. There is no timer on it either. I suggest we let this poll stand until we complete workboat, then follow the original plan we made with Stonehenge, or the second option if Stonehenge is voted away.
cav scout
The Continuum
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Pure speculation on my part-
*I think the other teams have talked about Stonehenge and concluded that the charismatic teams (Us and the Amazonian Persians) are the most likely to go all out for it.
*Because they don't have as strong of an incentive i'm guessing the 4 non-charismatic teams will pass on Stonehenge and focus on REXing or other wonders, namely an Oracle sling to Colossus. With a water map and with the Great Lighhouse out I think teams are going to get giddy for the Colossus.
*So that leaves us and the Persians. Although they are charismatic, their leader Sommerswerd is going to be obsessed with REXing with 50% settlers. So I think they will pass on Stonehenge.
*I think the other teams have talked about Stonehenge and concluded that the charismatic teams (Us and the Amazonian Persians) are the most likely to go all out for it.
*Because they don't have as strong of an incentive i'm guessing the 4 non-charismatic teams will pass on Stonehenge and focus on REXing or other wonders, namely an Oracle sling to Colossus. With a water map and with the Great Lighhouse out I think teams are going to get giddy for the Colossus.
*So that leaves us and the Persians. Although they are charismatic, their leader Sommerswerd is going to be obsessed with REXing with 50% settlers. So I think they will pass on Stonehenge.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
CavScout, you are again (as in Kazakhstan), spot on with your analysis, and you was one of the teamplayers I was more happy with, so I am happy you are on our team, and welcome. You will truly make a good complementation of an already promising team. We got a fair shot in this game.
I stand by Stonehenge, as the Great Prophets may secure us an early religion or critical early specialist. Finding the geographic relative position, cultureboosting new cities without worrying about a new monument or library as well as the added happiness is key here. Did anyone notice how few happiness wonders were about ?
Please think hard on this one. We are not getting any early religion. Charismatic only gives ONE happiness, not two. Finally, we need to fill up on techs for a bit, so we can build some, and the first city can grow for a little bit, as we then can see what the workboat discovers before we pour out a lot of new cities. Please consider all these things, and not go for blind all-out REXing.
I stand by Stonehenge, as the Great Prophets may secure us an early religion or critical early specialist. Finding the geographic relative position, cultureboosting new cities without worrying about a new monument or library as well as the added happiness is key here. Did anyone notice how few happiness wonders were about ?
Please think hard on this one. We are not getting any early religion. Charismatic only gives ONE happiness, not two. Finally, we need to fill up on techs for a bit, so we can build some, and the first city can grow for a little bit, as we then can see what the workboat discovers before we pour out a lot of new cities. Please consider all these things, and not go for blind all-out REXing.
cav scout
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Thanks Provo. Yes we both agree that going for Stonehenge is a risk worth taking. But I would rather loose a debate then have any member of our team feel their voice was minimized. I want to make sure we reach our decisions based on the free flow of ideas, where everyone's opinion (and their right to change it) is respected.
