Stonehenge / Pyramid Rush Guide

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
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Going either Stonehenge or the Pyramids is a very solid opener, but if an AI beats you to it, you could be considering a remake due to how much it puts you behind.

A "standard" timing is to complete the wonder on Turn 26 (barring anything like ancient ruins, or bonus like Egypt/America). Turn 28 is a bit late but often doable, and anything later than that becomes a gamble. While you can often do it later as the AI doesn't always rush these wonders, you are putting yourself at the mercy of the AI rather than smart play. The simple truth is, there are starts made for this kind of rush, and starts that are not.

Here is what you need on the map to be considered a "good" rush location.
  • A flat (aka 3f1p) spot to settle your city.
  • 1 3f spot
  • 3 1f2p locations (often forests)
The order:
  • Build the monument while working your 3F tile. Your goal is to get to 3 pop as soon as you can. You may want to rush the monument if you are able to, to ensure it does not delay your wonder timing. Research either wheel (stonehenge) or mining (pyramids)
  • Once the tech for the wheel finishes, and the monument is done, begin work on the wonder.
  • Once you get to 3 pop, force your tiles to the 3 1f3p tiles.
  • Done properly, that should put you right at Turn 26. If you have a slight delay in your monument if you aren't able to rush it, you might go to turn 28.
Here is an example of a good rush spot.

Spoiler :

Screenshot.png

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This is a good guide. It shows that this is possible on a pretty typical start, not just extremely good land. You can also finish a little earlier if you take tradition for the extra pop (and to a lesser extent, authority for the extra hammer).

BTW I find Stonehenge is a little safer than Pyramids just because the AI usually researches mining before wheel. This also means you usually won't get a 'you are competing for the same wonders' negative relations modifier for Stonehenge but you sometimes will for Pyramids.
 
I pretty much always see AI finish pyramids before stonehenge, by a significant margin. like 5 turns earlier or more on average. I can get stonehenge pretty reliably with a decent start, but pyramids seems like a super gamble, with AI very often getting it turn 22 or so
 
Yeah, I was going to say that I consistently see either pyramids or Stonehenge done by 21-23, never both of them. But I have to add that it's on alternative difficulty mod. I generally don't view either as a powerful wonder, AI is slow in getting religion, but has a lot of production early so there are other priorities. I think hill amber is the best for that and ofc a very good tile early
 
Yeah, I was going to say that I consistently see either pyramids or Stonehenge done by 21-23, never both of them. But I have to add that it's on alternative difficulty mod.
Is that on deity? The only time I every see AIs accomplishing wonders that fast on Immortal is:

1) They are America
2) Ruins are on.
 
Yeah, deity, and ruins on. It's often China or India, but it can happen even with some authority factions like Rome
 
Yea with ruins on there always a chance an AI gets a free tech which results in these wonders going much earlier.

Without ruins on Deity I see Pyramids go late 20's to early 30's. Stonehenge mostly the same but occasionally not until like turn 40 (many AI don't prioritize wheel).
 
That's funny that AIs dislike wheel as a first tech. I choose it as first in the majority of the games, it's so versatile, giving you opportunity to choose ancestor worship, build a solid third building after shrine and monument are built but settlers still cannot, it's crucial to increasing production and seeing if desert or tundra pantheon are viable through revealing stone, and even allows you to build roads if you get a progress worker before you have access to improving a second tier resource. It's also on a solid position in the tree, keeping both top and bottom tech tree builds open. I mostly open with pottery when I beeline for fishing straight away on coastal luxury resources and technically would open with mining for a well on a non-river start but this is a rarity. Tundra starts sometimes favour the wheel or trapping, the latter will certainly increase now with a lodge. And tundra starts were already the best, along with desert. In that regard VP is anti-reality, grasslands and plains with a plantation resources, which would include most historical centers of civilisations like Rome, Greece, ancient China, Western Europe are very weak.
 
Would you guys go for Stonehenge or pyramids in a tradition game? What about if you have a nice mining lux?
 
Would you guys go for Stonehenge or pyramids in a tradition game? What about if you have a nice mining lux?
Both are strong options and it depends on what your plan is.

Stonehenge and tradition are able to consistently get a religion with just your capital. Stonehenge can be valuable if you really want a particular pantheon that game.

Pyramids can be very powerful if you find a natural wonder nearby to settle it quickly. This works best with a faith wonder because going monument->pyramids delays your shrine substantially. This is a notable weakness of Pyramids build orders, you will likely get the 8th pantheon on higher difficulties. You can try to build monument-shrine-pyramids, but that's really risky, and shrine first will kill your culture.

A mining luxury makes mining a better tech obviously, but it doesn't really need to be your first tech, since you won't have a worker yet anyways unless you get a ton of gold from somewhere.
 
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Pyramids can be very powerful if you find a natural wonder nearby to settle it quickly. This works best with a faith wonder because going monument->pyramids delays your shrine substantially. This is a notable weakness of Pyramids build orders, you will likely get the 8th pantheon on higher difficulties. You can try to build monument-shrine-stonehenge, but that's really risky, and shrine first will kill your culture.
Pretty much spot on, Pyramids is better also if you have a pantheon you can take insta faith advantage on, so that you can squeeze in that founding. Example would be like spirit of the desert on a desert heavy start, so that you get a nice surge of faith the second you finally get your pantheon. While I can found comfortably with tradition on a regular start, pyramid first tradition is tough to found with unless you have some bonus faith or a strong faith pantheon that kicks in right out of the gate.

In general that fast early city is very useful for tradition, because you often need to stake claim early and start setting the terrain to your advantage for good defensive positions (getting forward settled as tradition can just kill your momentum), but going shrine first kills your ability to get a lot of wonders (like throw HG out the window), and if you can't found without going shrine first its hard to justify the wonder over stonehendge or just playing straight up.

I do think Stonehenge is straight up better for wonder play. The early council gives you a little science boost which is not to be underestimated, you get a fast pantheon for power yields, and because your 2nd city is delayed a touch it actually speeds you up for wonder timings.
 
I pretty much always see AI finish pyramids before stonehenge, by a significant margin. like 5 turns earlier or more on average. I can get stonehenge pretty reliably with a decent start, but pyramids seems like a super gamble, with AI very often getting it turn 22 or so
Yes AI is way more competitive about Pyramids but not only that I feel (could very well be bias) I feel AI's get really really grumpy when I get pyramids, but Stonehenge is fine.
 
I've been playing America and trying to see how many wonders I can get early game (immortal, standard, no ruins).

My general plan has been monument->Stonehenge->Pyramids->Halicarnassus or Artemis->Hanging Gardens.

I've played the opening turns maybe 10ish times trying to figure out the best sequence.

I've gotten Stonehenge every time I believe, usually at ~t24ish.

I've gotten Pyramids almost every time, usually ~t36 I think? It's been surprising how long Pyramids goes unclaimed most of the time.

I've found that Halicarnassus is pretty easy to get and if my tiles are better suited to it then it's fairly obtainable. Artemis, on the other hand, seems to get gobbled up a few turns before I get it more often than not. I guess the AI likes it better? I'm fuzzy on the turns that these are usually taken. I believe you can improve your chances if you take the engineer policy in tradition for the bonus production and 3p specialist you can work.

Hanging Gardens is also no guarantee even if you are basically beelining for it. You're more gated by culture than the tech which often means you should take the artist policy in tradition first rather than engineer. It kind of feels like Artemis and Hanging Gardens are at odds with eachother in that respect.

Your capital is typically stagnant on growth at 5 pop because you're trying to squeeze out as much production as possible and working an early specialist too.

My thinking so far is that the best path is a quarry start so that you go for Henge, Pyramids, Halicarnassus, and Gardens. You also found your religion very early (~t85ish I think?) via the beauty pantheon.

No idea how Deity would shift things. I just started playing again after like a year playing other games so I'm not quite ready for Deity yet.

Edit: I'm fairly certain I had a game where I got Artemis and then Halicarnassus which further suggests Halicarnassus is not very prioritized by the AI.

Edit+Edit: In my current game Artemis went at t50 and Halicarnassus just went at t69 (same turn as Great Lighthouse, go figure). Quite the discrepancy despite Artemis and Halicarnassus being at the same tech/culture level. Great Library went a few turns later and I just got Gardens much later on t77. So at least in this game the AI is easy to beat to Henge, Pyramid, Halicarnassus, and Gardens while Artemis, GLighthouse, and GLibrary are quite difficult. Roman forum and Terracotta are also sitting there up for grabs.
 
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Edit+Edit: In my current game Artemis went at t50 and Halicarnassus just went at t69 (same turn as Great Lighthouse, go figure). Quite the discrepancy despite Artemis and Halicarnassus being at the same tech/culture level. Great Library went a few turns later and I just got Gardens much later on t77. So at least in this game the AI is easy to beat to Henge, Pyramid, Halicarnassus, and Gardens while Artemis, GLighthouse, and GLibrary are quite difficult. Roman forum and Terracotta are also sitting there up for grabs.
The AI generally like calendar more than construction. Many of them pursue writing quickly and plantation luxuries are more common than quarries.

If you have extra culture from somewhere you have a pretty good chance at getting Stonehenge + Hali + Hanging Gardens on a strong starting location. I've never tried getting Pyramids too.
 
That makes sense.

I assume only civs with advantages in building wonders like America could consistently get both Henge and Pyramids but I've never tried to find out.
 
That makes sense.

I assume only civs with advantages in building wonders like America could consistently get both Henge and Pyramids but I've never tried to find out.
Egypt can also do it well with the right land, but I think you flirt with danger. Whereas America just takes care of the business.
 
I only go pyramids with celts or aztecs who have faith on kill.
But even with a good start location its definitely not a guarantee to get it on emperor.
 
I only go pyramids with celts or aztecs who have faith on kill.
But even with a good start location its definitely not a guarantee to get it on emperor.

Depends on patch a lot but what turn are you finishing it on?

Because under the last patch I found even t31 was always safe, and that is pretty slow
 
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