1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Stop aging at the cost of having no children - would you do it?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Oh you can edit this

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    7,165
    I think you're misreading the OP. While it was stated that you wouldn't be immortal, inasmuch as accidents or other violent events could still kill you, I think the clear implication was that it was about significantly extending your lifespan, not just maintaining a youthful appearance.

    I didn't see any "refusal" to refer to them as people, just not using the term in that particular sentence. Do you always see it as dehumanising any time a person is referred to as anything other than "a person".?

    I mean... I'd guess it was you being antagonistic and insulting. I don't think it's hard to work out.
     
  2. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Lemon Merchant is Canadian but in America, you are entitled to express your opinions because of the first amendment. Thus, she is entitled to say "I hate children".

    Couldn't be more simple than that, unless Canadian laws are different. "But it might harm someone else". Maybe, maybe not, but she would still be entitled to it. You are being a jackass right now and apparently, you are entitled to it even if you shouldn't be. Then again, "freedom of speech first amendment" laws don't apply to private companies like CFC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  3. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    22,302
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Thanks Siri.
     
  4. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,017
    Gender:
    Male
    You're welcome, Alexa.
     
  5. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    Glasgnopolis, Grottland
    May the force be with you

    ........i've been too much into the old EU star wars lately....:mischief:
     
  6. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Who is that?
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,118
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Since we are on the subject of children:

     
    tjs282 likes this.
  8. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Lol. Anyway, people are not entitled to be pedophiles or anything else that would outright abuse children but people are entitled simply not to want to have them and even dislike them.
     
  9. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Professional Killjoy Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,220
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Sector A
    Apparently not.
     
    hobbsyoyo and caketastydelish like this.
  10. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    Glasgnopolis, Grottland
    caketastydelish likes this.
  11. Leifmk

    Leifmk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,002
    Location:
    Outskirts of Oslo, Norway
    Welp, I got four kids already, so.
     
  12. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,456
    Location:
    the most beautiful town in Germany
    anyone else think Commodore's posts were absolutely hilarious and the peak of breeder entitlement? no? I'll sort myself out.

    though one sentence really stuck, it seems to carry all the indignation of a parent that sees his own kids as nothing less but a divine blessing brought upon earth, a thing that everyone should be thankful for, not to the children of course, but to him and his noble sacrifice. and god forbid someone doesn't love them!

    oh no! not your poor babies :( how could anyone dislike your perfect little children? (there are some disturbing parallels between Commodore and Jerry Seinfeld's mom in the show)

    It is also highly ironic how Commodore chooses to instrumentalize his own children just for the sake of making a point (and his point was to insult someone else, lovely).

    newsflash: Stalin was once a child. So was Pol Pot. Some children literally kill their parents, or otherwise abuse them. The only meaningful difference, in that regard, between tiny human and fully grown human is that tiny humans are affected even more by outside influences (like bad parenting, peer pressure, etc.) and therefore we just love to put them in the victim role. the stone cold truth is however that children, especially once they grow closer to their teens, are actual human beings with agency, and all the implications that come with that. we often declare them as children precisely because we want to strip them of their agency, have them appear vulnerable, and completely and utterly silence any discourse from their side, because it threatens parental authority and our (predominantly western) narrative. see for example the problems of migrant children, or factory workers. literally no one gives two *****. are they often interviewed? no, we talk to the parents of course.

    Idgaf about your kids. they're a few out of 7 billion. they mean as much to me as a Cambodian fisherman, a Canadian mountaineer, or any other hairless, self-conscious monkey. fundamentally they're human, and hating kids is not to be treated all that much differently than misanthropy. it's totally okay. I'm misanthropic, too, from time to time. now at this point I can hear you fuming from over the pond, so I'll stop for the sake of civility.

    now, so people don't get the wrong impression, I personally think that children are the better humans, in almost every regard. they're less morally bankrupt, they have better ideas, they haven't given up entirely on utopian thinking, they're not as much creatures of habit, and thousands of other reasons. and I think that we have way, wayy to many grown-ups around, especially old farts, who sadly get to punish everyone simply by virtue of being old and voting in the most sheepish, destructive fashion, like a teenager with an anarcho-punk phase, but that's another discussion for another day.
     
    caketastydelish, Lexicus and jarred! like this.
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,027
    Still the real cannon, not the fake Disney stuff that gutted even the orginal's characters.

    I don't hate children, but this is still unconvincing. Children can easily be morally bankrupt even at pretty young ages, and "better ideas" makes the risk of sticking knives into electrical sockets or questions the reasons pill bottles are kept away from them. Also anecdotally I was broadly worse as a kid than I am now, other than physically (depends on what specific age of my childhood though. I was in incredible shape in high school, but am probably more athletic than my middle school self right now even cardio-wise). When it comes to reasoning/responsibility/consideration for others it's no contest.

    Granted, some people still act like kids as adults in many ways, so I can see why you'd say this. But I suspect they weren't particularly charming children either in that case.
     
  14. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,456
    Location:
    the most beautiful town in Germany
    I can, and will, make the argument as to why children are better human beings at some point in the future (lacking the time and mojo right now), and I hope you'll be there to fire back. I kinda need that, in a way, lest I get lost in my own ideas, my own world. that is one of the main reasons I still come to this forum. because there are many people that I consider smart and intellectually honest, that attack or question the statements that I make. civf is one of the least hugboxy, echoey communities I've been to and features a pretty wide range of ASL. I realize many of my ideas might be offensive to some, and sometimes I purposefully put some oil in the fire, but it's all in good fun. I think especially those marginalized ideas, especially the ones that no one wants to hear, are worth shouting out loud.
     
  15. civvver

    civvver Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,122
    I'm not lazy. I'm pragmatic.

    While I am not going to demonize you in the same vein as commodore said because I get where you are coming from, children aren't for everyone and they can be quite annoying, I will say if you spun the conversation around to be about any other type of person everyone would jump on your case as a racist or some other discriminatory thing, heartless person. Like imagine these two statements:

    I detest mentally challenged people. They take so much time to care for and talk funny and I would never choose to be friends with one.

    or

    I detest black people. They're really loud and annoying and I choose not to have any black friends.

    or

    Man I cannot stand old people, they're smelly and forgetful and just a burden.

    I'm 100% supportive of your decision not to have kids. Kids ain't for everyone for sure. But I see a little bit of where commodore is coming from. If you said ew I just can't stand to be around x where x was any other group than children you'd open yourself up to a ton of backlash.
     
  16. civvver

    civvver Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,122
    But anyway this thread I think has ran its course and the outcome has been fairly pointless.

    Every responded already had made up their mind whether they want/have children or don't want children and are just taking the no aging as a side benefit. So no one was swayed to the other side. I don't think anyone said I want kids, but yep I'd give them up for no aging.

    You need a better would you rather, like would you rather never age or have internet access? Would you rather never watch tv or never eat cheese again?
     
  17. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,456
    Location:
    the most beautiful town in Germany
    this thread has been anything but pointless, please don't diminish its value by calling it thus :) maybe you didn't get much out of it, that's totally cool, but I'm always extremely glad to have the opportunity to listen to what people think, especially if they disagree with me

    Every responded already had made up their mind whether they want/have children or don't want children

    what did you think this thread was gonna be, "the bad guys" convincing others to never have children? "the good guys" convincing the misfits that they should breed? why does someone need to be brought into another camp for the thread to be successful? this is, to some degree, what's wrong with internet discussion culture. you don't need to convert people, put them in your team. it's enough to listen and respect. that's really the biggest service you can give someone with a different opinion,

    and are just taking the no aging as a side benefit.

    This is a very valid point, and you may be right in that this is the reason why the thread premise wasn't as successful

    You need a better would you rather, like would you rather never age or have internet access? Would you rather never watch tv or never eat cheese again?

    Ice cream or pudding?
     
    MaryKB and caketastydelish like this.
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,752
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    How heartless do you have to be to look at a bunch of kids shot while they're in school and say "I don't support gun control"??? Let's not pretend for one second that you're coming from a position of concern for the welfare of children!
     
    Valka D'Ur, MaryKB and jarred! like this.
  19. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    42,651
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    Well, in truth, he'll have a bias about how best to care about the welfare of children. It's just tu quoque. LM went too far in expressing distaste, and is going to be chastised for the language used. I know there's some type of 'empowerment' gradient by somehow defending the statement, but meh. Commodore suffers in this debate due to holding subpar opinions on other topics. But there are no other minorities about which we'd tolerate LM's style of language, especially minorities that are the least capable of preventing the behaviours that 'trigger' the bias. In fact, the entire framing was unacceptable. Note how the framing blamed the kids for being kids, rather than self-blaming for the intolerance. "They'll disappoint me" kinda encapsulates that. There's no pressure on LM to have kids, but if a kid disappoints then that's a good sign that you're ascribing blame to the other as we do with all the other out-groups that we blame for their failings instead of the situation that created that failing.

    Instead of having realistic expectations, we're in a world where others are detested. Nah, it doesn't work that way.

    If a child disappoints you then it's more your problem than theirs. It's obviously fine to personally believe that, but don't expect the expression to be unchallenged. Don't detest the kids, detest the parents who allowed children to be within your vicinity. Don't detest the kids, blame yourself for being incapable of moving to a location without them. We don't live in a world where we cannot have kids. LM being triggered by kids, who are essential, seems no different from all the people who're triggered by immigrants. Loathing children is a personality failing. We don't accept such loathing elsewhere, in comparable situations.

    Tweak some of the language, and it barely registers. Keep the words used, and it's a problem.
     
    Birdjaguar likes this.
  20. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,456
    Location:
    the most beautiful town in Germany
    No, it really isn't. It's merely a preference. We can find preferences disgusting, sometimes for good reason (like loathing people for the color of their skin) or they can be brilliant (like my taste in music, jk). Often times human beings have very strong preferences: I think hard boiled eggs are disgusting. Some people have non-neurotypical preferences, like weird fetishes, misanthropy, or loathing children. The fact that they're not common does not make them inherently wrong, it just makes them uncommon. You are the one casting a value judgement on LM's character, not on her opinion, singling her out for a non-typical preference. You're the one attempting to formulate: "There must be something objectively wrong with you if you detest children, it is not merely a preference, it is a personality failing."

    I've said this already, and I will say it again: Being a nazi is not a personality failing, nor a psychological one. Some of the most boring, square, completely neurotypical people are torturers, murderers and agitators. Our ideas have long, long ago become more powerful than our mind. You can critisize LM's ideas or preferences all you want. Not a problem. But if you strawman them into a personality failing, You are the one who has made the logical leap.

    I also really dislike your solution: "Tweak some of your language" -- Essentially what you're saying is that you're okay with people having potentially harmful beliefs as long as they express them in a politically correct manner, dogwhistle them, imply them, etc. That is of course just a game of semantics, and helps no one. If anything it makes things more complex for everyone involved. I liked the brutality with which LM offered her statement. I like kids, I was once a kid, but did not take offense.

    tl;dr: Detesting children is not a sign of personality failing, it is a sign of holding an (poor/acceptable) opinion. Whether or not this opinion is reflective of her personality is something you cannot possibly know.
     
    cardgame and MaryKB like this.

Share This Page