Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by evrett37, Oct 10, 2010.
You just made me die a little inside... I didn't know that
cmon dude, be real... if you want a non flawed game then there would be almost no games... i know everyone is mad, but it is what it is, complaining about it probably won't change much
If we saved them from bankruptcy then where`s our "Thank you" letter? Okay, maybe that`s too smug of us to ask. But what about a promise to fix the game and make it like what it was/is meant to be?
I haven`t been lurking in the 2K forums but from what i have heard then they close your thread if you point any of the game`s flaws.
On the contrary, letting 2K Games and Firaxis know that ciV is completely unacceptable is something all true Civ fans should do.
If we don't complain about this half baked, unbalanced mess then nothing will change.
I agree with him, but maybe because I was taught that, 'If you're going to start a job, start it and finish it right, or don't start it at all.' type of environment.
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument. It's better to have the Civilization franchise end than to have a game that not everyone might like, but which can still be modded and is enjoyed by many people?
But about the original point, I'd also have to disagree there. We'll never know what happened during beta testing, but the buck can't stop at the beta testers for the very fact that Firaxis is ultimately responsible. They are the designers and programmers of the game.
Don't forget, according to Dennis Shirk, this game was a "big sloppy kiss to all Civ fans".
Well, don't you usually get kissed before you get (you know)?
2K Forums are awful. It's like a police state over there sadly.
Frankenstein Test Group
Did we really expect anything good with a name like that?
A half baked monster, in need of patches that has little semblance of AI.
Sounds a lot like ciV.
So let us consider that if 2k are experiencing financial trouble wouldn't it be sensible not to screw up the goldmine that is Civilization? More people would then buy their product.
How hard is it to design a GOOD Civ 5? I could have done it blindfolded, and I can't even program!
I can only imagine that many of the issues being raised on these forums now were identified and reported to Firaxis/2K, who presumably said "thanks for your input" while feeding the shredder.
Or, maybe this group was so busy reporting and fixing the "dinosaurs" that we are not seeing (things much bigger than bugs) that the relatively "minor" glitches that remain could not be addressed?
You don't seem to really understand what modding is, it's just adding and changing existing rules and code to an already existing engine. If the engine is broken and bug infested and incomplete, makes modding difficult and frustrating and impossible.
Sad but true.
A strong battle AI is a must for example... sure i can put a nice hat and a sharper weapon on that soldier but he will still charge into the wall...
Tester says "Your KI sucks"
Fraxis says "Yep, but we have a release date. Oh, and remember that paper you had to accept? Says you are not allowed to tell anyone about the stuff from the Test."
Tester says "Yep"
Guilt of the Tester?
as logical as your point seems to be, it is hard to charge the Betas with this disaster. Remember that all of us were dreaming of a new success, a better game... anyone among us would have accepted the offer to work as Betas for this version without blinking. Once accepted and binded by contract, the NDA kicks in, and even if the Betas see the disaster coming (as they sure did), they CANNOT SAY A WORD thanks to the NDA.
No, Sir, this "massification of Civ" has only the developers to blame, and among them, the boy with the Panzer fixation seems to be the first candidate...
If thats true then its another thing none of these "testers" came forward with. They had a responsibility to the game and as fellow gamers to the community and they failed both.
Exactly - we must act or expect more of the same - if we want community reps and testers to be honest and forthcoming an example must be set to shwo what happens when fail at their responsibilities. Its in the best interest of Civ to have testers who are there for the right reasons and feel some pressure to succeed.
If they had to sign an NDA, then they had a legal obligation not to disclose what they discovered in testing, and a responsibility to report to the company what they found. Presumably, there was no option to test without an NDA. So the only way to exercise their "responsibility to the game" was to test under this restriction and report to the bosses.
If you are suggesting that the testers should have risked a breach of contract lawsuit to be the whistleblowers about the unfixed flaws ... well I would not put my and my family's financial security at risk for ... A GAME! Get some perspective ...
<makes rolling eyes gesture> To my knowledge no one has ever been sued for violation of an NDA in the testing of a video game. What exactly is the fine for that sort of thing? 100 hours community service? And if they came forward and what they said was true enough to be backed up by the data and other tests any lawsuit would be a PR nightmare.
And that assumes the tester is stupid enough to identify him/her self publicly. The greatest asset of the interweb is anonymity.
The OP clearly has no understanding of what beta testing is. They would have been an under an NDA, and even if they weren't, beta testers are there to bug hunt and provide feedback, not act as 'community snoops'.
Further, they would not have had access to the final, pre-release build. They would have tested the most recently released beta build, but bug fixing and tweaking would still have been going on after that, right up until crunch time and the retail release. All they can do is test and report issues, bugs and make recommendations for a product still being developed (recommendations and testing directed by the developers).
I've been in a fair few betas and the ignorance on display here is staggering.
interweb is anonymity <----- Yeah when I got to age 10 I realized santa claus didn't really exist.
When I got to age 20 I realized there is no such thing as democracy.
Tis only yesterday I found out there is no such thing as anonymity.
i love this "bring a torch and burn them all" spirit... Especially toward some of the best modders out there.
You should document yourself a bit about what is a beta test and a NDA (like signing a contract, with your name on it) before posting inflammatory topics like this, seriously.
Separate names with a comma.