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STR-02 English Astronomers

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Strauss, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. Strauss

    Strauss King

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    938
    The settings:
    Difficulty level: Monarch
    Map type: Islands
    Map size: Standard
    Large Islands: Several extras
    Tiny Islands: Various
    Game speed: Epic
    Civ: England
    Victory conditions: All are enabled. However, only Domination is considered a 'true' victory.
    Opponents: Random 7
    Barbs: On


    The game
    We are the small island nation of England. We are Isolationists, we don't want to have anything to do with other nations, and this also means we also have no desire to settle anywhere else. We have our own island, and we have everything we need here, so we are happy.

    But many mythical tales tell about far-away lands, and the English people become fascinated. So when we discover Optics, the people want to explore and colonize these lands. They also start to become attracted by exotic goods from other civilizations, and decide to finally trade with them.

    Eventually, the English start to return to their Isolationist roots. They get annoyed by the fact that they depend on other civilizations for their goods. This brings out the warlike spirit in the English, and they decide that colonizing uninhabited lands is not enough. England should dominate the world, and for that other civilizations will have to be removed by force. 'The sun will rise on the English Empire, and then never set again.'


    The variants
    So to sum it all up, the variants are:
    - until we have researched Optics, we may not trade or sign Open Borders with other civilizations
    - until we have researched Optics, we may also not settle other islands
    - when we have researched Optics, we can trade with other civs, and can colonize other islands, but still cannot invade other civs' homelands
    - when we have researched Astronomy, we can invade other 'home islands' and should then go for domination victory


    Roster:
    I think I'll try out a 4-man roster for this one, which is less than the 'common' SG-roster (5/6)
    1) Strauss
    2) Bede
    3) Kanga_DU
    4) Foolonthehill

    Alternate:
    Nares

    Everyone is welcome, although experience with both Prince level and SG's would be very helpful, considering Monarch is quite tough and the variants aren't making it easier.
    When signing up, please also state your preferred leader - Lizzy or Vicky?

    General SG-rules apply, 24 hours for a 'got it', additional 48 hours to play. I won't be a total nitpick about time limits, just try to keep up the pace.
     
  2. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    I'll take the shillin', Cap'n Strauss.

    Have played a few SG's in my time and have no fear of Monarch.

    Have no real preference other than aesthetic on the Lady Queen. The red haired Virgin is my personal favorite.
     
  3. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    283
    Hey Strauss, if I haven't offended you enough yet, how about giving me another shot?

    Aye, I be interested. An' I say Lizzy be me lass, laddies.
     
  4. FoolontheHill

    FoolontheHill Head Stooge

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Hi Strauss.

    Love the variant!

    I'm comfortable with Prince, beginning to play SP on Monarch.

    Currently in a couple of other SGs, but looking for one more (and only one more :) ).

    Lizzy is definitely cuter, cute is good.

    I'm in if you want me, but I'm on the road until Saturday and would have difficultly playing my turns before then.
     
  5. Strauss

    Strauss King

    Joined:
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    You're all in!

    Kanga, where did you offend me?

    I see, so you were actually laughing AT me! You're lucky Foolonthehill can't play until Saturday and I have to put him at the bottom of the roster, or else it would've been you down there! You have been warned.:whipped:

    I'll post a starting position later today and will probably play tonight after France-Portugal finishes (allez les Bleus!)
     
  6. Strauss

    Strauss King

    Joined:
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    And here is our starting position:



    In my opinion, a great start. A great combination of food (corn + lake/sea), shields (forests and hill) and commerce (lake and gold).

    We already have some dilemma's considering our first tech route. Since we have to get Optics to trade and expand, that tech should be given priority. However, it's still a long way off (we have to go through some expensive techs)
    I think that Agriculture in combination with a 'Worker-first' strategy is the best start. Hooking up that gold early on is very important to boost our research, while farming the corn will compensate for growth.

    After that I think an interesting option would be to go for the Oracle, and try to grab Metal Casting (which is expensive and on the route to Optics), or Code of Laws (to counter the lack of religion spreading into our lands because of no Open Borders). I must admit that I've never even attempted to build the Oracle on Monarch yet, as I'm usually occupied with wars during that time. So I don't know if it's too ambitious to go for the Oracle without starting with Mysticism. On the other hand, we have loads of commerce near our starting position which could really give us an edge in early research.

    So this is my suggested tech path:
    Agriculture-The Wheel-Pottery-Mysticism-Meditation-Priesthood-Bronze Working/Writing (depending on whether we go for Metal Casting or CoL)

    I will wait until at least 2 of you have reacted to these suggestions before I will play the first 40 turns. I don't want to set us up with a Mission Impossible before the game even starts:mischief:
     
  7. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Well its seems I've only suceeded in confusing you.... hmmm back to the drawing board then. :crazyeye:

    More seriously though, perhaps research the wheel and pottery after preisthood? I agree with a worker first play. The worker should have mining and farming to finish before needing pottery. Focus on early commerce on the lake/gold mine and get as early as possible start on the Oracle? Who knows, we might bag the early religion if we get lucky.
     
  8. Nares

    Nares Emperor

    Joined:
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    Let me know if you'd care for a fifth, as I would be glad to join.
     
  9. Strauss

    Strauss King

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    @ Nares: I would like to 'experiment' with a 4-man roster for this one. However, I'll sign you up as an alternate, and you're of course welcome to lurk and jump into the discussions (as is everyone). Good luck with your own SG BTW:)

    To get Buddhism, that means we have to avoid Saladin, Montezuma, Huayna, Gandhi, Asoka and Isabella.;) Not a big chance, although a few days ago I had a game where Roosevelt founded Buddhism in like 2000 BC....
    Getting Hinduism could be possible. However, researching Polytheism will take longer than Meditation, and we're already pushing our luck a bit if we go for the Oracle. It could come down to 1 or 2 turns.

    About researching The Wheel and Pottery after Priesthood, I don't know if we would be able to get The Wheel, Pottery AND Bronze Working before the Oracle finishes. Besides, it'll give our Worker something to do.
     
  10. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    I see no issue with the tech path and the worker first is sensible. If we find stone in the neighborhood I might consider a detour through Masonry and taking a shot at Stonehenge, or even with no stone if the capitol is hammer heavy.

    The Great Prophet Points from the ' Henge give us a shot a later religion and the building shouldn't interfere with the Oracle if we want to try that path. The only times I have been successful with the Oracle CS slingshot was with marble in the first town or the second. But getting Metal Casting is certainly doable, given the research we should be able to spit out.
     
  11. FoolontheHill

    FoolontheHill Head Stooge

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    Location:
    Kentucky
    Absolutely! A future commerce powerhouse.
    Agree. An early religion is quite possible if you work the lake tiles with the 3 commerce, but it would still be chancy since we don't start with Mysticism. Since we would need mysticism anyway to go for the oracle, we could give it a shot by going mysticism-polytheism-priesthood (some chance as hinduism that way) then switch to worker techs. Worst case, we are delayed in giving the worker anything to do, but could start the Oracle very quickly.
    In another game I'm in (FTS-01) we did pull off a CS sling on Monarch at about 1240 BC. In that one though, we were on an isolated island with no barbs. Even though it worked, I'm not sure whether I liked it or not. From what I've seen (and heard from others in that game), if we can complete the Oracle before 1000 BC it's possible. Even then, the COL or metal casting sling makes more sense in this game since it allows us to deviate some in the tech path to meet other needs. Nares, since you're lurking here, what do you think about the Metal Casting sling since we pulled off the CS sling in the other one?
    I'm fine with the one you suggest. The other alternative could give us a quick religion, but would be risky (and we could still get beaten to polytheism).
     
  12. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Lurking here

    That's a nice starting spot. With gold hooked up fairly soon you should be able to get a jump on research. Would be nice if there was fish there too. You guys are playing Lizzy too so Stonehenge would be nice for popping GP. Good luck and with the right amount of science you can do well on monarch.
     
  13. Strauss

    Strauss King

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    Turn 0 (4000 BC): Our history begins. London is founded, and research on Agriculture starts.

    Turn 1: Our warrior pops a hut, and receives no less than 110 gold pieces from the villagers.

    Turn 5: Our explorers find another Gold Mine to the east.

    Turn 8: London’s borders expand

    Turn 12:
    Our warrior pops another hut, and gets 38 gold this time.

    Turn 14: Agriculture is discovered, and I start on The Wheel



    Turn 21: Find marble to London’s SW (in a rather barren area, but alright)



    Turn 25 (3250 BC): Seems we could have had a shot at Buddhism, it’s founded quite late.

    Turn 27: The English discover the Wheel, and I decide to go on the religious path before researching Pottery. Stonehenge seems like a viable option.

    Turn 34: London grows to size 2, start working the gold mine.

    Turn 37: Mysticism comes in. I now start on Polytheism because, quite surprisingly, Hinduism is still up for grabs. With the gold mine, researching Polytheism will cost a mere 10 turns.
    A warrior is trained in London, it now starts on Stonehenge, which will currently take 45 turns to complete.

    Turn 38: Corn-farm finished. London’s growth-time goes from 32 turns to 8:)

    Turn 40 (2800 BC): My reign ends.



    Looks like a nice little island near the south pole we've got there. I can see a few nice city sites here, for example the plain-hill bottleneck to the west of London. If I can find the time today I'll make a nice little dotmap.

    As you can see, with 7 turns to go on Polytheism we still have a chance at getting Hinduism. After we get Polytheism, I would suggest going for Priesthood-BW-Pottery, and choose Metal Casting if we can get the Oracle. If Stonehenge isn't near completion when we get Priesthood, should we still finish it or switch to Oracle right away?

    We don't need to worry about Settlers just yet as there is no rush in expanding considering our isolation. It might be an interesting option to found a city near the marble to hurry up the Oracle, but the land down there is so barren (and we don't even have Hunting to camp the Deers yet) that it might not be worth it.

    UP next is Bede.
     
  14. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    Good start.

    Hmm. Four health resources but only one happiness resource, though it is a good one. Makes an early religion more important....so pursuing Hinduism was a good choice. If we get it it makes Stonehenge less useful so I would consider swapping out the to the Oracle just as soon as Priesthood comes in. If we don't I would probably finish it. No hurry on claiming any town sites either so warriors and settlers aren't needed quite yet.

    Got it and play it tomorrow evening (or maybe tonight)
     
  15. Strauss

    Strauss King

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    Good point about not needing Stonehenge's GP-points if we found a religion, I didn't think about that. We could still use them to get our shrine, but I think the Oracle also generates Great Prophet points? And like in STR-01, I again get screwed by the map script with only 1 happiness resource...:gripe:
     
  16. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    Both wonders generate Great Prophets and having both of them in one town makes for a very lopsided mix of Greats, as it always seems a Prophet pops when what you really wanted was a Scientist.

    And if we mine some hills and get to working them we could pop some silver. One hand takes away while the other gives, you know.
     
  17. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    We are going to be wealty and well fed, but there is a real dearth of hammers.

    Despite the wealth of the nation with the gold in that thar hill this message came up in 2620BC



    Got some roads cut and some irrigation down then sent the worker west to cut a road to the next town site (I think) while waiting for Bronze Working to come in and time to chop some forests (otherwise I don't think we will get the Oracle). Found this guy in 2380BC



    so the warrior has moved back a little closer to home base.

    As soon as Priesthood was learned I put Stonehenge on the back burner and started the Oracle. With someone breathing down our neck like that I saw that as the safe play. We are really hammer short so I tried to keep the growth coming so we could get the population in place to work the hammers we do have.

    Here is a map for your consideration when we do get around to equipping settlers. Two sites have access to two food resources (the marble town is there only for the marble though it will have decent commercial possibilities from the coastal fields) and a fair bit of commerce from the sea, what is really lacking is production as we seem to be short of hills



    Copper and Iron on the plains might be nice, though. The western town could move onto the plains 1NW1N and use the fish and the sheep for food and the hill for hammers but leaving the corn for another western town.

    Oracle is coming along okay due in 27 and Bronze will deliver in 7. I didn't want to spend the seven turns on Masonry for the quarry and another seven or so on the settler to claim it (not to mention the 10 or so to build the quarry) so we are going to have to hope the opponent doesn't have a handy quarry.

    Roster as I understand it

    3) Kanga_DU - up next
    4) Foolonthehill - on the deck
    1) Strauss
    2) Bede
     
  18. Strauss

    Strauss King

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    I never have any luck when it comes to Hinduism. Everyone says it's easier to go for Hinduism instead of Buddhism but I haven't ever succeeded in getting Hinduism above Noble:crazyeye: . Good turns though Bede.

    I agree on your city placement. We are indeed short of hammers, though the western city gets a slight edge if we found it on the plains hill. For the western and southwestern cities there are some forests for shields. We're also quite unlucky with resources, Marble is in a bad position and we only have Sheep and Deer instead of Cows and Ivory (which do give extra shields).
    On the other hand, we have a good position for commerce, which is a big help to keep up with other civs before we can trade.

    As mentioned above, Kanga is UP! (20 turns), with Foolonthehill on deck (20 turns as well).
     
  19. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Got it (and playing now). Will endevour to:

    - Get oracle, with chops if needed.
    - Settler and pray for some copper. :worship:
     
  20. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Nice and quick.

    T0 - 4 zzz
    T5 See that archer Bede mentioned, get warrior to forest hill.
    T6 zzz
    T7 Bronze working in - revolt to slavery. Start Hunting and queue up Animal Husbandry (hope for good horses).
    T8 - 14 zzz (worker has been roading most of this time out west btw).
    IBT That archer finally goes after the warrior on the forest hill. And loses. :goodjob:

    T15 Warrior left healing and unpromoted on that hill. Worker starts chop on grassland forest in city radius. Chops outside were so pitiful that I couldn't bring myself to do it.

    T16 Border pop. Hey hey hey! Its time for an new dot map. Especially since I've not considered if we have copper anywhere yet. :rolleyes:

    T17-18 zzzz
    T19 Chop done - 3 to go on oracle.
    T20 :cry: :mad: :smoke:
    Ummm, someone explain why I didn't whip in the oracle to be safe? There might be a prize for the best excuse. I'll leave it up the the group to decide if its worth it with 2 turns left for the cost of 1 pop.

    And the save: View attachment 131987
     

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