Strange Diplomacy And Weird Alliances

[Troyens]

I am the Egyptians and have been attacked by the Germans.

I tempt the Babylonians to join in the fight against the Germans with some nice trade and gold deals.

Eventually, after a long war, I make peace with the Germans.

Many, many years later I go to the Persians to make a deal and am told, "Not after the way you treated Babylon".

Huh??

Am I getting blamed for making a peace? What else was I supposed to do, fight on indefintely until and if Babylon made peace??

 

[Dawgma]

The problem is most likely that you made peace with the Germans before your 20 turn agreement with Babylon was expired, thus in effect breaking the alliance and abandoning Babylon to fight your war. What are friends for eh?

 

[BigBirdZ28]

Originally posted by Dawgma
The problem is most likely that you made peace with the Germans before your 20 turn agreement with Babylon was expired, thus in effect breaking the alliance and abandoning Babylon to fight your war.

Is this an actual rule ?

 

[Ironikinit]

Yes, totally. If you break an alliance by making peace with the common enemy before the 20 turns has elapsed, your former ally will consider it a stab in the back.

You can see how many turns remain in a diplomatic agreement on your diplomacy screen for that civ under "Active".

 

[Northstar5757]

Ya happened to me during my first game too.

Wish they would implement some type of warning

 

[docceh]

I also found this out the hard way in my first game.

Some prior knowledge would've been handy but, as always, trial and error prevails

 

[Zouave]

So if the Germans came with a nice deal to make peace I would have to tell them to take a hike because I hadn't kept a check on a scoreboard or something the number of turns since when Babylon went to war with Egypt against Germany?!?


Jeez.

I would have to tell Germany to get lost and call an audience with Babylon to check on the bottom of the screen the "active" deal list to see how long ago it was since the alliance was formed?? :crazyeyes And then see if Germany was willing to have an audience with me after I just told them to bug off!!

Sid, baby. Come on. Let's keep things a little less compex and weird.

PATCH, PATCH.


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BTW, such a rule would have severely damaged the reputation of Egypt and Anwar Sadat who, after going to war with Israel in 1973 allied to Syria and with direct military help from Iraq and Jorday, and financial help from the Arab world, cut a separate deal with Israel at Camp David - for billions of U.S. $$ per year the Egypt now gets (as does Israel). Although Sadat's reputation was HELPED by this back stabbing - outside the Arab world - he did get whacked for it in 1981.

 

[dannyevilcat]

Hey perhaps this is a perfect way to handle this problem in a future expasion or even just a patch (which of course will never happen, but)...
When negotiating a peace when allied, have the option to invite ally. Then all parties would have to settle for the same peace treaty, which might limit some of the available options, but would preserve the integrity of your word.

 

[Zouave]

This is just another example of what I've said regarding a lot of factors - that THIS GAME WAS RUSHED TO MARKET FOR CHRISTMAS.

 

[Cerryl]

Dude, enough with your crusade to tell everyone in the entire world you think the game is buggy. STFU already.

The mutual protection pacts should stay as they are, when your ass is on the spot, you wouldn't want your allies backing out and leaving you alone would you? They're not to be entered into lightly as world war can start easily through their use.

 

[KloePoek]

thx cerryl.. i've tried to tell him, and a lot of pplz do, but he just won't listen.. and you can get into diplomacy with another civ iirc while talking to someone.. just click the diplo advisor, go to the trade advisor, click a person you can trade with, and voila.. instant diplomacy.. just add water!

 

[marshalljames]

You betrayed the babalonians by signing the peace treaty.As far as I know just because you signed a treaty doesn't mean you allies recieved one also.They were probably a week civ and the germans destroyed them?

 

[WOPR]

That would be a nice feature for a patch. World War I/II begins on your Pangaea continent when 4+ civs attack each other at the same time? Military alliances/MPPs abound?

Have them all go to the table and negotiate a peace treaty.

That would be totally cool.

 

[zebomba]

Programming the AI to do so would be too hard.
Just imagine what humans do when several people get together to decide that kind of thing.

And yes, this game is a beta version, and the last patch should be called 1.0 .
But no, not everything you dislike is a bug. The AI is a big evolution over the other games.

 

[Cantankerous]

:enlighten:

Something that could be considered when you're negotiating peace:

If you are about to agree to a peace treaty with a race you are at war with and you still have an active alliance with another civilization, your advisor should give you a warning something like:

"Are you sure we want to sign this peace treaty? We still have 'X' turns left until our alliance with the [civ's name] expires."

This would allow you to know if you are screwing over your relationship with your allies.

Just a thought....

 

[Troyens]

Yea. Too bad Firaxis never thought of that. Another problem with the game.

HUNDREDS of years after making peace the Persians STILL hate the Egyptians' guts.

Give me a break, Firaxis.

If Germany had come to me to make peace I could NOT make peace because I didn't know (and couldn't check on) the turns left.

Bad job, Firaxis.

 

[Moulton]

My advisors are less than helpfull.. It is up to me to keep track or my relations. I think what is happening here, is encouraging you to honor your treaties. It really is backstabbing to entice someone else to fight your wars for you. Notice, when they agree to join in your campaign, either through a MPP or allies against someone, they actually send units to fight. I have seen many posts where the player brags that he gets someone else to fight his war for him, and he picks up the spoils. Yes, you can do it that way. The game may penalize you. You may not care, depending on playing style and goals.

I get totally frstrated when they walk into my territory turn after turn, and eventually, I iwill probably declare war... I take a hit for that, but I refuse to let them through, and get tired of warning them off. Cleo calls me "Bloodthirsty" Well, she won't give me the snide "We wer just testing your defenses" again.

One of the things I hated in Civ II was the warning that if you broke a diiplomatic agreement, you rep would suffer big time... and it did. However, If THE AI broke one... and they did, all the tiem... they did not seem to suffer. THis AI seems bound to the same code of ethics they impose on us. That's good.

 

[Troyens]

Reality: various threads have exposed the many AI CHEATS in Civ III.

As for keeping track of turns, I guess I now need a pen and notepad when playing Civ III. What with two minutes between turns I have time for paperwork.

Firaxis.

 

[black_adder2]

All I want is for your 'crimes' to be forgiven after 20 turns or so... It blows to have some incident from 1150 BC be held against you in 2015...

 

[Moulton]

How about an incident is 500BC remembered in 1800 AD???

You don't need paper.. just go to the diplomatic advisor screen, suggest a deal, and see what is active. Now that I suggest this.. I know it shows the terms left in your 20 turn peace deal, and I think it shows alliances and mpp's -- You may need paper after all.