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Strategic victory for Huawei.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Silurian, May 20, 2019.

  1. Takhisis

    Takhisis daria dance party

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    up yours!
    I have no trust in the US government either, especially with the Donald (and, more importantly, those who design his policies) in charge. But the US is still not China.

    And yes, I am aware of the fact that the US has to be compared to China to be the better of the two.
    Trump wants the US to become China. But it is not China yet, not by a couple orders of magnitude. There is still a civil society which tries to fight back, and I hope that it succeeds.
    Yes. The Chinese government is doing nothing that the US hasn't done before. Bankrolling allies, helping topple unfavoruable governments, suborning officials, destroying civil and environmental rights and selling them armaments (and training) that will as often as not be used tos tart wars or attack the population… yes, the US has done all that, which somehow helps people accept it whenever other powers, regional or global, do the same, because ‘oh the US already does it in X’.
     
  2. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    You do not need to be an allmighty power to meddle with dubious actions:


    Nice combi !
     
  3. abradley

    abradley Emperor

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    "Strategic victory for Huawei."

    What's the yogi Berra Saying: "It ain’t over till it’s over."
     
  4. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    Sometimes we tend to forget that the global community needed to use more stick and less carrot with China's flagrant violations of norms and treatises (and human rights too) Where we are today is explicitly due to USA and WTO setting very specific demands, the Chinese envoy agreeing to said demands, and China subsequently balking away from fulfilling them.
    Media tends to focus on the short term actions (i.e. Trump's tariffs) and not on the longer history of China's violations.
    In some ways Trump is following up on what was initiated by Obama: China made very specific promises and violated them all.
    Trump resumed the negotiations and China, again, failed to respect the agreements.

    And PLEASE stop with this "what about USA"!
    There is no comparison on the level of human right abuse, surveillance, and general disregard for human life and dignity that the Chinese Communist Party have shown and continue showing.
    Ask the people in Hong Kong what they think about it
     
    hobbsyoyo and Old Hippy like this.
  5. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Looks like a narrative fallacy; Trump's ability to follow the logic your post suggests is not credible.
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Now to see how long the American threat to remove Hong Kong's special trade status in favor of the policy towards non colonial China stands for.
     
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    I can think of no other country more similar to the US than China. Both have government in bed with large corporations, with state power and corporate power too often mixing. Both are in love with the death penalty and imprisoning people. Both love mass surveillance and repression as a tool for keeping "social stability". And both have all this and will continue to have all this because they're Empires.
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Still, if all we ever do is reflexively balk at or attack everything he ever does, even when we agree with him, we might as well be Fox News hosts. Our hatred and ridicule shouldn't override our judgement.
     
  9. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Weird. European states have often looked that way to me, but the people's republic is a different beast entire unless I'm being ... well, it's unflattering.
     
  10. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    China has like a few islands and Tibet not exactly an "Empire"
    It sort of has NK as a protectorate but not really just keeping that country afloat as a buffer state. Its surrounded by other super powers, like Japan, India and not so super power Russia.

    Large parts of Lost Outer Manchuria might flip back to China, given how incredibly improvised they have been while just across the border China starting to flourish economically
    No chance of taking back Taiwan, if China is even close to building up it naval strength to be a threat then Taiwan will build nukes to restore its military security and forever remove the military option.
     
  11. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    I'm not seeing satellites as ever being an improvement over fiber in the way cell phones are better than landline phones. The bandwidth and cost on fiber is so much better.

    I do not consider myself a libertarian, I am for a regulated market.

    I am skeptical here, by my understanding Google has complied with FISA requests to get emails from gmail accounts and the like.

    I do not trust Donald Trump to have the patience and fortitude to have a consistent coherent policy with China, and especially not one that is based on human dignity. He may make policy decisions that a rationally acting better president might also make, but those are historical accidents.

    With China the imperialism comes from corporations which act overseas in coordination with the Chinese government to act on their strategic interests.
     
  12. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Yes, absolutely, but "access to data that is stored in an unencrypted form, pursuant to some legal process" is a far cry from "free access to all data".

    Email is not, and has never been a secure method of communication, and should never be treated as such. (Barring PGP email, which is really too much of a hassle to bother with - just use Signal.)
     
  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Pff, everyone knows the only really secure method of communication is buying a burner phone for every conversation, breaking it in half and dropping it in a trash can, then dramatically turning and walking away.
     
  14. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    Pfffft! Self destructing paper is the only secure method.
     
  15. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Currently, yes. With re-used rockets and ~$500,000 satellites, that begins to change. And the cost of both are continuing to fall.
     
  16. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

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    Oh, the Chinese way. I see...
     
  17. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    Huawei is literally "China do".
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis daria dance party

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    up yours!
    But Signal requires verification with a phone number, which still compromises people's privacy. Especially in such a place as China where communicating with a marked number entails automatic re-education.
     
  19. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Modern messaging is mobile-first, and Signal is designed to be usable as the de facto standard modern messaging platform.

    That being said, the threat model you're proposing isn't really practical. If I'm in China, I can verify Signal via an arbitrary non-Chinese VOIP number, and I can pollute the pool of "marked" numbers by sending verification texts to any arbitrary Chinese numbers. If you're being targeted by nation-state actors, there's no trivial "use this app" that's going to keep you safe anyway, you need serious opsec.
     

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